| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| randall |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 04:20:04
The 45th NYFF closed with an animated adaptation of Marjane Satrapi's graphic novels about living as a free-thinking woman in Iran, both before and after the Islamic Revolution. I realize that most of you never will, or probably even care to, see this movie; I myself probably wouldn't have, had it not been selected for NYFF closing night. All I can say is that it was a window on a world I'd never even imagined. I went with an Iraqi friend of mine, an artist, who reports that the animation style solidly reflects the look-and-feel of the graphic novels. My guess is next to none of you will have the pleasure, but if you remember the title in years to come, check it out. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Demisemicenturian |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 01:44:20
Yep, I didn't feel the dubbing worked well either. Given that it is an animation and the facial shapes were stylised, I found that quite surprising.
I guess the enjoyment of candy is more transient than that of soup! |
| demonic |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 01:28:14
These strange and incessant semantic quibbles on practically every subject and every film are actually put me off contributing to the topic.
I'm persevering anyway.
I don't think Persepolis should have won the Oscar over Ratatouille. I enjoyed Persepolis but felt there was plenty wrong with it, namely the stunted anecdotal narrative structure which took at least half and hour to settle down, some very dodgy, rushed and emotionally dry voice dubbing (unfortunately my only option - I'd much rather subtitles), and a confused overall message. The animation was wonderful and I loved it, and it was brilliantly funny, but I was dissatisfied on the whole following the huge praise it has garnered.
Persepolis may be a true story and one worth telling, and it does it very well, but comparing it to a pure entertainment like Ratatouille is fruitless; it's like comparing the brightest most delectable candy with really good soup. Having said that - the latter emotionally engaged and enchanted me even though it's a made up story about a rat. How much harder is that to actually pull off emotional engagement to a fictional computer generated rodent with an incongruous American accent? |
| chazbo |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 19:02:32
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by chazbo
We still tend to think of animation as a children's genre, and though a good children's animated film also appeals to an adult audience, it is never taken as seriously by mainstream audiences as movies in other genres.
The great thing about Persepolis is that it compellingly tells an adult story in the animated genre.
As Satrapi herself is very keen to point out, animation is not a genre: it's a medium. It's thinking of it as a genre which is what may limit people's thinking of Persepolis. (I actually think you agree on this point but are just happening to use the word genre.  )
That's right. I used "we" as a reference to the mainstream moviegoing public, who do see animation as a genre (as the Academy obviously does, though perhaps less so than in the past), and who would on the whole see Porky Pig as an entertaining oddity rather than a character challenging social norms.
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| Demisemicenturian |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 13:09:06
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
I thought my understanding of that was evident in my last post
And I thought my understanding of the animation and all of the other factors being factors was evident in my earlier post; I took your post to mean that it was not, hence my reiteration of that. |
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 13:01:20
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
Ratatouille's amimation far outweighed Persepolis in the category which it won.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the category is Best Animated Film, not Best Animation in a Film. The animation itself would obviously have to be good, but it's not like Sound Editing or something like that where that is the only measure. Also, Ratatouille's animation style is not really original, whereas Persepolis's is.
Hmmmm... I see your point but surely the quality of story and character development, and plot are accompanied by the quality of the animation in this category?
Reply Salopian
Yes, the animation quality is of course one of the measures for assessing the category, just not the only one.
---------------------------------------------------
Yes I thought my understanding of that was evident in my last post however that amount of meticulous work Brad Bird and his team went to not only making a wonderful plot story and one of the few animtated childrens features with character development let alone the amazing cgi which it has a highly improved clarity and definition, especially in the use of water, than it's predecessors.
So that in my view is why Persepolis while being an excellent movie moved me in a very different and grown up sort of way. |
| Demisemicenturian |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 12:25:33
Yes, the animation quality is of course one of the measures for assessing the category, just not the only one. |
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 11:27:15
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
Ratatouille's amimation far outweighed Persepolis in the category which it won.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the category is Best Animated Film, not Best Animation in a Film. The animation itself would obviously have to be good, but it's not like Sound Editing or something like that where that is the only measure. Also, Ratatouille's animation style is not really original, whereas Persepolis's is.
Hmmmm... I see your point but surely the quality of story and character development, and plot are accompanied by the quality of the animation in this category? |
| Demisemicenturian |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 09:38:36
quote:
Originally posted by chazbo
We still tend to think of animation as a children's genre, and though a good children's animated film also appeals to an adult audience, it is never taken as seriously by mainstream audiences as movies in other genres.
The great thing about Persepolis is that it compellingly tells an adult story in the animated genre.
As Satrapi herself is very keen to point out, animation is not a genre: it's a medium. It's thinking of it as a genre which is what may limit people's thinking of Persepolis. (I actually think you agree on this point but are just happening to use the word genre. ) |
| Demisemicenturian |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 09:34:20
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
Ratatouille's amimation far outweighed Persepolis in the category which it won.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the category is Best Animated Film, not Best Animation in a Film. The animation itself would obviously have to be good, but it's not like Sound Editing or something like that where that is the only measure. Also, Ratatouille's animation style is not really original, whereas Persepolis's is. |
| BaftaBaby |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 19:03:37
quote:
Originally posted by chazbo
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
I'd have to agree with the Award going to Ratstouille.
Persepolis was a better film on the interest/historical/educational and personal level but Ratatouille's amimation far outweighed Persepolis in the category which it won.
Persepolis should have been nominated for Best Film.
IMHO
I think that Ratatouille is a good film for its genre: children's fantasy/animation. However, it seems to me that animation in general is too often judged as if it all belongs to this genre. That's why in the U.S. a film like Ratatouille can make hundreds of millions of dollars and win awards, while one like Persepolis makes only a few million and goes relatively unwatched. We still tend to think of animation as a children's genre, and though a good children's animated film also appeals to an adult audience, it is never taken as seriously by mainstream audiences as movies in other genres.
The great thing about Persepolis is that it compellingly tells an adult story in the animated genre. That, to me, is a more laudable feat than Pixar's telling another cute and touching story in a manner similar to its previous efforts.
Persepolis's animation effectively captures its graphic novel origins. If it were animated in the same way as Ratatouille, it would detract severely from the story's intensity and even believability. Conversely, Ratatouille wouldn't work if animated in the style of Persepolis. So I think the animation fits each film perfectly, and you can't judge the one on the basis of the other's animation.
While I acknowledge the joy of watching Ratatouille, I still think that Persepolis is a more rewarding experience.
I have finished ranting.
Appropos:
From The Morning Star
Monday 30 July 2007
BETH PORTER on FILM
Getting animated about politics
THUFFERING THUCCATASH. Happy Feet, The Simpsons - animated features are chock-full of politics.
Fans will flock to Homer's long-awaited big-screen debut, but may balk at its movie message - the perils of pollution.
Those suburban boneheads the Simpsons usually poke gently at modern hypocrisy, leaving it to the barbed-wired South Park kids to kick political arse.
Homer's more potent cinematic point is clearly chiselled on Springfield's courthouse - "With Liberty and Justice for Most" - challenging the very seat of responsibility.
Sam Goldwyn once declared: "If you want to send a message, use Western Union." But moving images carry polemic in their very presence.
This recent cartoon coup begs the question: Just what is family entertainment anyway?
Hollywood's swimming in safe waters transcending party politics and national boundaries. Not many mainstream characters chortle about immigration or abortion, but even neocons admit the dangers of climate change.
Actually, animation has seldom equalled tot-flick. From their inception, movie cartoons addressed sociopolitical issues. Have we come full circle? And why now?
Hailed as the first animated feature, Disney's 1937 Snow White was variously predated, notably by the 1917 political satire El Ap�stol (The Apostle) by Italian-born Argentian Quirino Cristiani.
Parlaying his career as a political cartoonist and using stop-motion cardboard cut-outs to expose the hypocrisy of quasi-leftist President Yrigoyen, his cine-replica reduces Buenos Aires to a burnt-out crater in his determination to cleanse the city's corruption.
The Simpsons Movie, focusing on political flim-flam about global warming, plots a similar device without quite daring to finger Bush per se.
Argentina's warmongering press nicknamed Yrigoyen "Peludos," meaning both "shaggy" and "idiot," for his isolationist views, providing Cristiani with the title Peludopolis for the world's first full-length animated talkie.
During its production, Yrigoyen was ousted by a right-wing putsch in 1930 and the ever-opportunistic Cristiani altered his satire, lauding the military's heroics.
Ladislaw Starewicz's Reynard's Tale (1930) and Aleksandr Ptushko's The New Gulliver (1935) both draw more subtle political parallels.
Soon, the ubiquitous Disney launched his own cultural coup. Sure, blame the mouse for shifting focus to the anodyne, but even Uncle Walt used Mickey to send out political messages during wartime.
Friz Freleng's Merrie Melodies shorts include Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips featuring a Rambo-like rabbit defeating hordes of grotesquely-drawn Japanese enemies.
Unavailable for decades, it's now online at the website listed below, along with the "notorious eleven" - toons banned for their racist language.
Disney's full-length animated fairytales helped chase away the blues of The Depression and a war-torn world. In its prosperous aftermath, the growing television industry didn't want to rock social boats.
Television changed expectations, selling the 1950s public a version of home and hometown whose enemies were germs not Germans. Family values sold soap. The cleaners your floors, the cleaner your mind, Grandma.
But what goes around comes around. Rebellion beckoned Ralph Bakshi in the 1960s and 70s. His adult cartoons briefly helped lift the lid on ersatz respectability.
Until recently, the global rightward lurch had sent the animated message-bearers to sleep again. Character comedies from Pixar and Nick Park grabbed the well-deserved spotlight.
All that's changing with the viral nature of the internet. Self-taught animators pull no political punches online, neatly illustrated by Eric Blumriche's Dr Bushlove, available to see for free at the website below.
It's this free access rival to the big screen that's spurred studios to greenlight green messages. Are we heading into a new kind of radicalism?
Before Babe, the world's most adored piglet was Porky, a fatty who stutters. In a changing social climate, he became the anti-bullying poster boy. Political just by being.
WEB LINKS:
www.ifilm.com/tag/
www.mostoffensivevideo.com
www.ericblumrich.com/strangelove.html
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| chazbo |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 18:52:00
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
I'd have to agree with the Award going to Ratstouille.
Persepolis was a better film on the interest/historical/educational and personal level but Ratatouille's amimation far outweighed Persepolis in the category which it won.
Persepolis should have been nominated for Best Film.
IMHO
I think that Ratatouille is a good film for its genre: children's fantasy/animation. However, it seems to me that animation in general is too often judged as if it all belongs to this genre. That's why in the U.S. a film like Ratatouille can make hundreds of millions of dollars and win awards, while one like Persepolis makes only a few million and goes relatively unwatched. We still tend to think of animation as a children's genre, and though a good children's animated film also appeals to an adult audience, it is never taken as seriously by mainstream audiences as movies in other genres.
The great thing about Persepolis is that it compellingly tells an adult story in the animated genre. That, to me, is a more laudable feat than Pixar's telling another cute and touching story in a manner similar to its previous efforts.
Persepolis's animation effectively captures its graphic novel origins. If it were animated in the same way as Ratatouille, it would detract severely from the story's intensity and even believability. Conversely, Ratatouille wouldn't work if animated in the style of Persepolis. So I think the animation fits each film perfectly, and you can't judge the one on the basis of the other's animation.
While I acknowledge the joy of watching Ratatouille, I still think that Persepolis is a more rewarding experience.
I have finished ranting.
|
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 13:49:36
I'd have to agree with the Award going to Ratstouille.
Persepolis was a better film on the interest/historical/educational and personal level but Ratatouille's amimation far outweighed Persepolis in the category which it won.
Persepolis should have been nominated for Best Film.
IMHO
|
| Demisemicenturian |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 19:07:34
I'd now favour Persepolis over both Juno and Ratatouille, though in both cases only slightly. I found Ratatouille very touching, but it's so unusual for an animated film to be autobiographical, and the style is so honest and bold, that I now think Persepolis should have won. |
| chazbo |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 18:01:32
I watched this in French on DVD last night, and I was profoundly moved. Oddly, it is compared to Juno on the DVD cover, most likely for marketing reasons. It far outranks that overrated film, though there are moments of plot cliches. It is, as Randall says, a wonderful glimpse at a world that is all too foreign to us (but perhaps teenage pregnancy is a world that many would like to think is also foreign). It's telling that the Academy Award for best animation went to Ratatouille instead of Persepolis. At least when it comes to animation, we're a culture more obviously concerned with rodents in the kitchen than with oppression in Persia. Persepolis is certainly the better film.
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| BaftaBaby |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 12:47:18
Persepolis - English voiced version
Shamefully, I missed this when it was released in its sub-titled version so I can't compare the impact. But if the original was even a tenth as impressive that's a lot! It's not a perfect recounting of the Iranian graphic artist's tale of her early life under the Shah to the emotionally painful but exciting European make-over, and there are narrative longeurs. But if you stay with it there is so much charm and humor to leaven the uncomfortable political messages and so much clever characterization to involve you in Marjane Satrapi's life, you can endure the more agitprop moments to get to the film's heart.
Most of its success is due to the totally engaging graphics and most of all to the impeccable art direction. Although there are moments of color to indicate the present, most of the story is told in flashback black and white, emphasizing the schematic nature both of the political and personal developments. The artwork evokes both ancient Persian scrollwork and mosaic scenes as well as the bold statements that punch out contemporary comicbook art. It really is stunning and about as far from Disney or Pixar as you can get and still be animation.
The film pulls no punches when it comes to pointing a finger at the way the west has historically manipulated both Iran and its neighbors to protect its economic interests. But nothing's as black and white as it appears and the film's own color scheme makes its subtle point.
For the story to work, of course, you have to be entranced by little Marji, and with her inherently feisty persona, a devotee of Bruce Lee and punk rock with a built-in sense of natural justice and an enquiring mind wrapped around a soft soul, she's the kid you wished you'd been and/or the one you'd like to have.
The English voice cast illuminates the story beautifully, led by Sean Penn as Marji's father - intelligent and sensitive to the needs of his wife, daughter, and mother, able to remain true to his beliefs as his country rots around him. His wife is again voiced by Catherine Deneuve, matching Penn to convey both intellect and heart, with the brilliant Gena Rowlands as Marji's pragmatic no-nonsense grandmother. Chiara Mastroianni - Deneuve's daughter with Marcello Mostroianni - reprises the role of the older Marji showing a suitable wide range of humor and seriousness.
I urge you to see this. It combines charm and gravitas, much like del Toro but with lots more laughs.
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