| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Please Kill Me Now |
Posted - 02/27/2012 : 21:58:24
Extremely difficult to navigate or see anything clearly on this new site!
Please, Benj, go back to the old style! Or I may stop reviewing! |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 01:42:16
I really enjoyed this thread and have to thank you all.
Firstly well done to PKMN for starting this thread in your own unique way.
To Benj for handling the queries once you finally dragged them out of fwiffers, and Boydegg for pointing out fixable layout issues.
To Larry and Demonic for thoroughly exploring the new site. How much real time did anyone give it?
Good facebook allusion from Sean.
I too was a armchair luddite Rovark.
It has eventually opened up some constructive criticism.
As Benj pointed all websites have to update themselves. I prefer of websites update themselves, it shows an awareness with their surroundings.
A lot of us saw the first years of the internet and were not born into it like the next generation of Fwiffers. We need to pass the mantle to people who are on a different level of technological integration than some of us.
They will work it out.
I was at a party and got talking to a bunch of lads in their twenties. I had their attention for ten minutes reeling off all your fwfr's.
They were in knots of laughter and came up with a few on the spot.
I must try to direct them to us.
Oh and to Salopian because you might be pissed off that I left you out didn't you say something about fonts? |
| benj clews |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 17:28:11
quote:
Originally posted by TitanPA
Mind you Benj, I am not complaining. I love the new site. Like I said I can ignore or edit out the "Busy" stuff.
No, it's okay- I didn't think you were complaining but I am interested to hear what people like/ don't like/ get confused by on the new site as it gets me thinking about things I may not have before. There's already been a few things people have said here which have led me to rejigging parts of the site, all for the better I think.
quote:
Then you come down to the "Now Showing" tag line. we already have movies on the left side of the website. Also some of the movies are old in the "Now Showing" tag line.
That's weird- the Now Showing banner gets all its films from those in the UK and US chart which have reviews against them so unless you're talking about re-releases such as Titanic 3D there should be nothing older than a month in there.
quote:
Plus the FAQS as of now are out of date. They dont give you the new info that you need to navigate the new site.
Yes- I'll be rewriting these (might need some help if anyone wants to pitch in, actually) once the site is in a place where no more massive changes look likely.
quote:
Now when you are ready to get onto your "My FWFR" you click the button and as soon as you get onto your new page you are hit with THE LIST. You scroll down to view the whole list and new people are not aware they can edit their own list or they are to lazy to do it and just navigate only to the places they like to go to.
I see there being a quick graphical intro to using the site the first time anyone logs into it. Might be an idea to integrate this into the FAQs also in fact.
quote:
Another confusing thing is that the name of the list is on the left of the site and the actual list is in the middle which then leaves a whole blank space under the name of the list, unless you Add New Film or Add New Message. Any way the name of the list can be above the list and the "Add" buttons next to the List name?
A few people have asked about this. What most here won't know is that I've already played around with lots of different layouts, including using the full width of the content area over the last few years in developing this. Doing so creates a whole lot more interface problems (Where do action buttons go? e.g. Create Accolade, Add Film. Where does the short helper text go?). It also leaves some pages looking very dull- just rows and rows of reviews. I actually think offsetting the content a little makes the page much more interesting. Additionally, some content (such as search results or user ranks) seems far too sparse to justify getting the entire width of the page.
I think in the end, the solution will come down to having some pages using the full width (e.g. myfwfr) and others having side boxes (e.g. the full accolade view page) but I've yet to find something which looks halfway decent.
quote:
Lastly I must say all the icons are self explanatory except for one. The My List icon is of the ranking kind (deities and such) but to new people it could be confusing if they are not used to what the icon means.
I get what you mean but ultimately feel initial confusion over icons isn't such a problem. If someone doesn't know what something does they can always hover over it or click it and they'll soon start making the connection, provided the icon isn't too reminiscent of something completely different on the site. |
| TitanPa |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 16:55:01
Mind you Benj, I am not complaining. I love the new site. Like I said I can ignore or edit out the "Busy" stuff. But since you asked I am willing to tell you what I and other might view as busy or confusing.
When you first come onto the site you are slapped in the face by the moving headline (As seen in.., and the book ad) New people coming are are just trying to locate the simple items and skills to surf through the site. Then you come down to the "Now Showing" tag line. we already have movies on the left side of the website. Also some of the movies are old in the "Now Showing" tag line.
New people, visitors, and returning Fwiffers are just looking for info. Could the FAQS link be bigger, brighter and near the Join now button? Plus the FAQS as of now are out of date. They dont give you the new info that you need to navigate the new site.
Now when you are ready to get onto your "My FWFR" you click the button and as soon as you get onto your new page you are hit with THE LIST. You scroll down to view the whole list and new people are not aware they can edit their own list or they are to lazy to do it and just navigate only to the places they like to go to.
Another confusing thing is that the name of the list is on the left of the site and the actual list is in the middle which then leaves a whole blank space under the name of the list, unless you Add New Film or Add New Message. Any way the name of the list can be above the list and the "Add" buttons next to the List name?
Lastly I must say all the icons are self explanatory except for one. The My List icon is of the ranking kind (deities and such) but to new people it could be confusing if they are not used to what the icon means.
Thats my say. I dont know if it is helpful but may give some insight..
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| benj clews |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 12:36:34
Interesting. Which bits are you finding busy? |
| TitanPa |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 12:29:45
I too miss the rankings on My FWFR but I know now where to look for it. But it would be much simpler if it was on our My FWFR. |
| TitanPa |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 12:28:23
I think most of us who were around since near the beginning and who spend a lot of time on the site regularly are understanding the new site more than those who aren't. I bet you dont understand a video game the first time you play. You need to keep playing and discover new things about it before you start getting good at it.
I originally thought that the new site was too "busy, confusing" but upon further exploration I now find I can ignore some of the "busy" stuff ad work with the stuff that I need to. That "busy" stuff I gather is available for new users. Once they explore then they too can ignore it and explore without noticing it. |
| Sean |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 12:04:35
^ Zigactly. Play with it and things make sense.  |
| demonic |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 00:57:34
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and even if that opinion is "I don't like it because I don't like it" that's perfectly fine with me - what I really don't understand is a lack of willingness I'm reading about in some of the critiques to really explore the new site, click on the buttons, discover the new stuff and play with the functionality to see how it works... although it's admittedly very different it's actually not that difficult. I'm using the old site on my mobile phone because the new site is too graphic heavy to reasonably do things quickly, but every time I look at the old one I'm seeing more and more things that look oddly antiquated and find that I'm preferring the new way for practically everything. Personally I think it's brilliant (and even more brilliant that Benj is so prepared to take all our comments on board so readily), but I think you've got to dive in the deep end and swim around for a while before you decide you don't like the swimming pool after only putting your toes in it.  |
| benj clews |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 14:43:35
quote:
Originally posted by boydegg
On 'my fwfr' on the old site, everything I wanted was right there at a glance. Case in point - my ranking and the rankings of the FWFRers directly ahead and behind me. I liked that.
Now I have to scroll down through a bunch of stuff that I never really bother with (new films, for your cons, flagged, messages etc). Could it be made so that the individual user can choose what is given priority on their FWFR page? I'd have: approved, voted, pending, declined ... isn't that the order they appear on the old FWFR?
Okay, I can at least answer this one with some positive news. If you stay at to the top of the page when you first go into myfwfr, there's a faded pencil icon to the (you guessed it) right of the page title (My Lists). Click on this to go to a new screen where you can edit which lists you see and the order (drag them up or down) they appear.
quote:
To answer your other question - yes, the IMDB link is very useful to me and I use it often. Especially when reviewing a film I haven't seen or haven't seen in ages.
Noted- I'll see if there's anywhere more prominent I can fit it. |
| boydegg |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 14:07:14
Hi again, Benj
Thanks for taking the time to patiently address each of my points.
I'm delighted to discover that old FWFR is still alive and available. I don't HATE new FWFR, and I understand the need to change and improve. I also understand that anything so big must be a work in progress with multiple issues and gripes and tweaks etc etc.
For now I think I'll stick with old FWFR but continue to check in on new FWFR.
I sense a growing frustration from you regarding people saying 'this sucks' without explaining why.
So here's one 'why' from me ...
On 'my fwfr' on the old site, everything I wanted was right there at a glance. Case in point - my ranking and the rankings of the FWFRers directly ahead and behind me. I liked that.
Now I have to scroll down through a bunch of stuff that I never really bother with (new films, for your cons, flagged, messages etc). Could it be made so that the individual user can choose what is given priority on their FWFR page? I'd have: approved, voted, pending, declined ... isn't that the order they appear on the old FWFR?
To answer your other question - yes, the IMDB link is very useful to me and I use it often. Especially when reviewing a film I haven't seen or haven't seen in ages.
Bottom line, though - it's your site and you should do it all as you wish. My messages are meant in the spirit of constructive criticism rather than angry ranting.
Cheers again for your work and your patience. FWFR old/new is still one of my favourite sites / pastimes.
Boydegg
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| benj clews |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 12:19:00
quote:
Some of the fonts have become notably larger. Why? I've no idea. I can read quite small text.
Because the old site is 7 years old and screen resolutions have almost doubled in this time. As a result, screens have become sharper but the things on it have gotten smaller. Take a look around the internet- everything is bigger.
quote:
There's really no need to make everything so big. It's an assault on the eyes - topped off by that glaring 'now showing' box which hits a visitor in the face upon arrival. Is it essential?
No, it's not essential but then it's the homepage. How much really is essential on a homepage? If a homepage was just what was essential, it'd be an explanation of the site and a login/ register box. It's also in keeping with the cinema-style look to the site which you earlier professed to like.
quote:
Surely the most striking things a visitor should see upon arrival are a 'what's this?' button for first-time-visitors and an easy to see 'my fwfr' button which takes regular visitors to their account page.
I've struggled over and over to come up with a What's this? box and after all this time I'm not even convinced it's neccessary. Heck, the site is called The Four Word Film Review. Looking just a little down the page, you'll see a bunch of very brief comments that seem to describe the film named beneath them. Just for extra clarification I put 'XXXX four word reviews' just below the number of films on the homepage. But really... how much explanation is required before it's actually patronising?
quote:
I feel that new FWFR should be fairly intuitive for me, since I'm familiar with old FWFR ... yet it isn't. I get lost, I get confused and I get frustrated. So I imagine it's even worse for a first time visitor.
As I explained in this or the other new site thread, there will be a quick introduction to using the site done once we're at a place where things have settled down. I realise everything's different but I don't just change things because I can- I change them because they can be done better. They were done the way they were before because I didn't know better or have the ability to simplify them.
quote:
The only thing LESS in your face seems to be the 'my fwfr' button which is almost invisible!! Why? The button linking to the IMDB page for each film is also less obvious.
Maybe the colours can be amped up a little, but this is what I'm talking about; I can't fix these things if I don't know they're causing you issues. It's no use complaining something is confusing or busy or crowded (something which you still haven't explained) if I don't know the specifics.
Does the IMDB button need to be highly obvious? I only ever saw it as an extra bit on information, not a key site feature. Let me know how often you're using this.
quote:
Editing reviews ... I started to read this: "Edit the review and then click the two faded lines directly to the right (or top right of the review)- the background of the review will change to a yellow lined paper effect which indicates you're now editing the explanation. Click the faded review icon to the right to get back to editing the review."
... and stopped before I got to the end. How did something that was once so simple suddenly require so many instructions?
Simple answer: icons. Anything purely visual doesn't lend itself well to written description. A quick diagram will explain it very nicely however and make it easy to remember. You only need to get the gist of what I mean once and you'll know how to do it every other time.
Also, I'd disagree it was so simple before; I've lost count of how many people have asked how to edit the explanation on their reviews in the past.
quote:
Edit the review. How? How do I edit the review? I can't click on it.
Click on the faded pencil icon to the right (or top right) of the review.
quote:
So as you advised ... I'll stick with the brand of chocolate I prefer. I'll keep using old fwfr and hopefully the new fwfr will be more user friendly and more friendly-looking later this year.
That's the plan. This is, and will continue to be, a work in progress, but I can only do this by hearing from you all what I'd doing right or wrong.
quote:
Benj - sorry for venting my frustration. I fully understand your aim is to make fwfr a positive and enjoyable experience for all visitors. Old FWFR did just that and did it well. It was fixed, so why break it?
Because it wasn't fixed. There's a lot wrong with the old site- a lot you don't see that I have to struggle to maintain on a daily basis because of the sprawling code and some you do but have gotten used to. I suspect this is down to diminishing expectations: "Yeah, there's a few odd quirks, it keeps logging me out and no two things really work the same way, but I'm used to it." I don't accept we should settle for second-best just because it's a familiar second-best. |
| boydegg |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:15:48
Hi Benj
Thanks for responding so quickly!
On the old FWFR, on the 'my fwfr' page, I used to see my rank followed by the number of accepted reviews in brackets. Above me, the next FWFRer and their number of reviews. Below, the person chasing me and their number of reviews. Simple. At a glance. I'd like to see that return. It didn't even take up much space.
The cramped and busy-ness:
I do like a lot of the new graphics and icons and the overall attempt to give the site the look and feel of a cinema.
Some of the fonts have become notably larger. Why? I've no idea. I can read quite small text. There's really no need to make everything so big. It's an assault on the eyes - topped off by that glaring 'now showing' box which hits a visitor in the face upon arrival. Is it essential? Could it be moved somewhere less obtrusive? Surely the most striking things a visitor should see upon arrival are a 'what's this?' button for first-time-visitors and an easy to see 'my fwfr' button which takes regular visitors to their account page.
I feel that new FWFR should be fairly intuitive for me, since I'm familiar with old FWFR ... yet it isn't. I get lost, I get confused and I get frustrated. So I imagine it's even worse for a first time visitor.
The only thing LESS in your face seems to be the 'my fwfr' button which is almost invisible!! Why? The button linking to the IMDB page for each film is also less obvious.
Editing reviews ... I started to read this: "Edit the review and then click the two faded lines directly to the right (or top right of the review)- the background of the review will change to a yellow lined paper effect which indicates you're now editing the explanation. Click the faded review icon to the right to get back to editing the review."
... and stopped before I got to the end. How did something that was once so simple suddenly require so many instructions?
In fact - I've just tried to follow the instructions and can't get past the first one. Edit the review. How? How do I edit the review? I can't click on it. Above the review I see the word review next to a triangle. Clicking the triangle causes the triangle to invert. Clicking again causes it to flip back. Clicking on the word 'review' also causes the triangle graphic to toggle.
Other than that ... what do I do? This is the opposite of intuitive.
So as you advised ... I'll stick with the brand of chocolate I prefer. I'll keep using old fwfr and hopefully the new fwfr will be more user friendly and more friendly-looking later this year.
Benj - sorry for venting my frustration. I fully understand your aim is to make fwfr a positive and enjoyable experience for all visitors. Old FWFR did just that and did it well. It was fixed, so why break it?
Boydegg
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| benj clews |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 09:03:11
quote:
Originally posted by boydegg
The site looks fresher, snazzier, punchier ... but I also find it busy, crowded and confusing. A lot of features I liked before are either gone or moved to somewhere I can't find them.
Okay, firstly what bits are you finding busy or crowded?
quote:
For example ... on my 'my fwfr' page, I used to be able to glance to the left and see my ranking and the person above and below me ... so it was easy to see how many reviews I was ahead of the person chasing me and how many reviews I was behind the person ahead of me. Gone. Or hidden.
What about if I added a ranking list to myfwfr?
quote:
I also don't seem to be able to add an explanation to my review, to clarify things for the MERPS.
Edit the review and then click the two faded lines directly to the right (or top right of the review)- the background of the review will change to a yellow lined paper effect which indicates you're now editing the explanation. Click the faded review icon to the right to get back to editing the review.
quote:
I decided not to comment right away - hoping there were just some bugs to sort out.
Now nothing seems to be reverting or improving.
I can't fix or compromise or integrate or whatnot anything I don't know is causing problems. Of course nothing that bothers you is being sorted until you tell me what they are.
quote:
I don't know what to do next. Leave FWFR? Keep waiting? I certainly don't enjoy using it as it is. I know there's a link to the old version still ... maybe I'll use that for the next few months then check back to see how this version is.
I don't see the dilemma. If they made my favourite chocolate bar with white chocolate instead of dark chocolate but kept the old flavour, I'd just keep buying the old flavour. |
| boydegg |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 08:13:22
Hi Benj
Sorry to join the throng, but I also don't dig the changes.
The site looks fresher, snazzier, punchier ... but I also find it busy, crowded and confusing. A lot of features I liked before are either gone or moved to somewhere I can't find them.
For example ... on my 'my fwfr' page, I used to be able to glance to the left and see my ranking and the person above and below me ... so it was easy to see how many reviews I was ahead of the person chasing me and how many reviews I was behind the person ahead of me. Gone. Or hidden.
I also don't seem to be able to add an explanation to my review, to clarify things for the MERPS.
When I first saw the new site (quite a while ago) I was excited by the new look, but quickly put off by the confusion. I got that same feeling I often get from Yahoo, Facebook, YouTube ... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Make it look nicer - GREAT. But why change the functionality of something that already works so well?
I decided not to comment right away - hoping there were just some bugs to sort out.
Now nothing seems to be reverting or improving. I don't know what to do next. Leave FWFR? Keep waiting? I certainly don't enjoy using it as it is. I know there's a link to the old version still ... maybe I'll use that for the next few months then check back to see how this version is.
Sorry Benj - this wave of negative feedback must be crushing. I guess at least it tells you that your visitors are passionate and protective about one of their fave sites.
Boydegg
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| Koli |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 21:07:01
quote:
Originally posted by Sean
quote:
Originally posted by Koli
I think it must be my turn.
The new site looks very good and I agree that the home page is now more likely to entice someone in to see more.
My gripe is that I've just tried to vote on a review (yes, I know, the first time since the change; I've been away playing with Flickr you see), and can't see how to do it. When I click on the film name it takes me to the film page (which could be very handy, I admit), but I still can't vote.
Is it coz I is using Safari on a Mac? (It sometimes is.) Or have I missed something? (I do that too.)
Make sure you're logged in, if not you can't vote. If you are logged in then the vote tab is the greyed-out star on the top right of the review, it'll turn gold when you've voted.
For the most part, when you want to do things or go places, the greyed-out things on the top right of a review or page (or whatever) are where you go. Hover over those and a pop-up should tell you what it does.
Hope that helps. 
Oh yeah. It does. Thanks mate. |
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