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randall 
"I like to watch."
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 Posted - 08/10/2006 : 20:37:44
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Am very interested in nationwide and worldwide reaction to this one. I saw it Tuesday night at a Lincoln Center screening, and more than a few people were openly weeping by the epilogue.
Oliver Stone focuses on a small group of people: (1) two rescuers who were trapped in the rubble, (2) their families, and (3) their rescuers, including some surprising freelancers. You never see the planes hit, only one shadow flying overhead. It's a very human-sized story, resembling PLATOON far more than it does JFK.
Like Paul Greengrass's earlier film, which takes place aboard the flight which crashed in Pennsylvania, you don't really have time to contemplate the wider consequences.
Is it too soon? It's been five years. Eventually, artists have to weigh in. [They already have in the theater, including a great piece by Neil LaBute about two years ago.]
Let me know what you all think of this one. |
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TitanPa 
"Here four more"
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Posted - 08/15/2006 : 16:16:47
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| hmmm. This tells a tale of noone replying. Movie only made it to 3rd place. |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 08/15/2006 : 18:02:59
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| True, true, but I believe I read it was still Oliver Stone's best opening. Anyhow pipe in as you guys see it, even if it's a few months from now on DVD. |
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benj clews 
"...."
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Posted - 08/15/2006 : 18:30:28
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I'll probably join in once it finally comes out in the UK...  |
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silly
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 08/15/2006 : 21:12:35
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I may wait and see it on DVD, I haven't decided.
On the one hand I love Cage and have heard good things about the movie.
On the other, the material brings a lot of emotion with it and I need to decide if I'm ready.
Is it a sign that the horsemen are saddling up that Will Ferrell driving in circles was number one for two weeks in a row? |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 08/15/2006 : 22:09:00
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quote:
Originally posted by silly
I may wait and see it on DVD, I haven't decided.
On the one hand I love Cage and have heard good things about the movie.
On the other, the material brings a lot of emotion with it and I need to decide if I'm ready.
Is it a sign that the horsemen are saddling up that Will Ferrell driving in circles was number one for two weeks in a row?
Aw, he can be funny. And face it, the reading line on Peter Travers' favorable ROLLING STONE review is, "Will Ferrell makes NASCAR his bitch." That sold me. I'll wait for the DVD, but I'll still Netflick it once I can.
On WTC, I'm curious about whether there's any emotional disconnect among people who don't live in NYC or DC, or among non-Americans; IOW, does it affect you less the farther away you are from Ground Zero? After all, the Bali massacre was senseless, horrific, utterly evil, but we in America were half a world away: we were shocked, saddened, but not stunned into incoherence like we were on 9/11. We were freaked the morning of the London bombings, but that was partly because we knew particular people: my first thought was, is benj OK? [Not understanding exactly where benj lives, mind, but still.]
BTW, I think you can see WTC without suffering emotionally; the actual attacks are way in the background, unlike Greengrass's film earlier this year [which I just couldn't bear to see in a theater, but I'll probably Netflick it too]. This one is about individual heroism, and it is ultimately uplifting in the end.
It's not the greatest movie I've ever seen, far from it, but it was surprising coming from Oliver Stone, and aside from a brilliant edition of THE ONION right after 9/11, it's the first piece of art that actually forced me to face this particular demon -- and defeat it.
I think we'll get more reaction once it arrives on home video. |
Edited by - randall on 08/15/2006 22:11:15 |
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 09/18/2006 : 17:38:15
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| LOL "The Onion" might have had their best headline of all time after 9/11. But it wasn't "right after," I'm pretty sure they took a short hiatus before they decided it was time to be funny again. |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 09/18/2006 : 21:46:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
LOL "The Onion" might have had their best headline of all time after 9/11. But it wasn't "right after," I'm pretty sure they took a short hiatus before they decided it was time to be funny again.
Let's put it this way: it was their first issue after 9/11.
All comedy stopped for a while. Letterman delivered an impassioned non-comedic speech a few days later, then went on with his show. But the true icebreaking moment was Rudy Giuliani's appearance on SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE. Lorne Michaels asked him on air, "Is it OK for us to be funny?" Giuliani's reply: "Why start now?" Good on the SNL writers. |
Edited by - randall on 09/18/2006 21:53:26 |
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 09/18/2006 : 21:52:49
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Well regardless of when, it was hilarious...and brilliant:
"HOLY FUCKING SHIT"
Frankly, I'm surprised the New York Times didn't go with that. |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 09/18/2006 : 21:58:23
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| U.S. ATTACKED in titanic type that I've never seen before or since did the trick. The fact that I was able to read that the next morning is a small miracle that would not have been possible in the pre-computer age. |
Edited by - randall on 09/18/2006 22:03:06 |
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 09/18/2006 : 22:10:42
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I have copies of that day's Times and USA Today, as well as copies from the next three days.
But The Onion really reported it better, anyway. "Hugging up 76,000 Percent," "Rest of Country Temporarily Feels Deep Affection for NYC," "Gen X Irony, Cynicism May Be Permanently Obsolete," and of course, the all time best (aside from the main headline I already mentioned): "Bush Vows To Defeat Whomever It Is We're At War With"
And then, of course, there's this TV Guide page: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38450 |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 09/19/2006 : 02:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Randall
On WTC, I'm curious about whether there's any emotional disconnect among people who don't live in NYC or DC, or among non-Americans; IOW, does it affect you less the farther away you are from Ground Zero?
Probably. I was pretty stunned like everyone else, I heard about the event at about 7am NZ time (six hours after the event) when a friend in Perth rang me and told me to get up and turn on my TV.
My reaction to it was more along the lines of "Oh shit, now what's gonna happen?" I.e., I knew that whoever was responsible had just changed the way the Western World was going to operate (as was presumably the intent), and that it wasn't going to be a good change. So my reaction wasn't stunned incoherence, it was more a deep sense of foreboding and dread of a gloomier future.
A couple of days later it became a little bit more personal when I went looking for the weekly column of Bill Meehan in TheStreet.com as I had been doing for a year or so previously, and found an obituary instead. 
I have never been to New York (or the USA other than airports). So one could argue that I was able to dissociate myself from the immediate human toll of 9/11 and think immediately about the future of the planet because of the significant geographical and cultural disconnect between me and the 9/11 murder victims, until I was able to put a face to one of them.
So, where do I put 9/11 now? I've filed it among the countless other instances in human history where people have slaughtered civilians for 'political' reasons. E.g., 9/11, Bali, Madrid, London, Oklahoma, Lockerbie, countless Vietnamese villages napalmed, Dresden, Hiroshima, Zarqawi's beheadings, Srebreniza, Auschwitz etc, the list is far too long. (Incidentally, I'm not commenting on whether these were 'good' or 'bad'; some of these massacres very likely prevented even greater massacres, and some (most) almost certainly didn't.)
On the issue of laughing about death/murder? I don't have a problem with it. In fact I think it's a good thing. Laughter is the best medicine, it stimulates endorphin production. Stimulating endorphins in any way possible after an 'endorphin-reducing disaster' can only be good, I'd guess it helps prevent people falling into that deep pit of despair from which it can be difficult to extract oneself. I wasn't aware of TheOnion's approach, but from the headlines mentioned above I'd give them 10/10. 
Anyway, that's the excuse I use to tell sick jokes shortly after something bad happens. 
Edit: I haven't seen the film, although I will when it arrives here, but I don't think it will have the effect on me that it would have on New Yorkers - unless it's an unbelievably well-made tragedy like Grave of the Fireflies and successfully transcends geography and culture and becomes utterly personal. |
Edited by - Sean on 09/19/2006 02:21:56 |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 10/09/2006 : 00:26:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Randall
On WTC, I'm curious about whether there's any emotional disconnect among people who don't live in NYC or DC, or among non-Americans; IOW, does it affect you less the farther away you are from Ground Zero?
I'm in Indiana, so I was fairly far away. I remember waking that morning to something I was hearing on television and started immediately calling my family and friends because at the time, no one knew what was going on. It felt like an enormous hand pushing me under water as I watched. Even today, when I think of it, it feels that way.
I don't think I feel more detached, it was a morning of total fear. We knew by mid-afternoon there was a no-fly order for the entire country, so when we were working in the yard and heard a jet overhead, we were stunned. Dayton (Ohio) Air Force Base is only about 80 miles away and they were flying overhead in their normal flight patterns. Our town's water tower happens to be a "practice target" - not that they shoot at it, but it's a target they focus on for whatever reason (visual navigation?). Hearing that jet was terrifying. I don't know to this day why they were up there, unless it was precautionary. Personally, I've not shaken the feelings of horror, mortification, dread that I felt that morning. Not entirely, anyway.
I haven't seen world Trade Center yet. With my vision, I wait for the DVD release. However, I have seen both Flight 93 (television film) and United 93. They served to reinforce those feelings. I know there will never be a clear picture of what happened on that particular flight, but I'm fairly certain the passengers tried to do something positive before they died.
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 10/09/2006 : 09:02:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Randall
On WTC, I'm curious about whether there's any emotional disconnect among people who don't live in NYC or DC, or among non-Americans; IOW, does it affect you less the farther away you are from Ground Zero? After all, the Bali massacre was senseless, horrific, utterly evil, but we in America were half a world away: we were shocked, saddened, but not stunned into incoherence like we were on 9/11. We were freaked the morning of the London bombings, but that was partly because we knew particular people: my first thought was, is benj OK? [Not understanding exactly where benj lives, mind, but still.]
Yes, very much so. And coming from Israel, I can tell you that while 9/11 was a huge tragedy for the USA, and New York in particular, people are starting to think that the US (and George Bush in particular) should really start calming down about it, already.
Let's put this into perspective:
The number of people who died is around 2900.
The population of the USA is over 290 million. That means that .001% of the citizens of the USA died that day.
The US has active troops in the amount of 1.4 million. Over 2700 troops have been killed in Iraq so far. That's almost .2% of your military.
What we wonder is: why is it that there isn't more outrage at the deaths of your soldiers in Iraq and this useless war there, than there is mourning for those that died on 9/11?
I was sort of hoping that the TV series Over There would have done something to remedy that, but I see it was cancelled after only one season.
(Perhaps it should have been a sit-com instead of a drama.)
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Edited by - ChocolateLady on 10/09/2006 14:29:33 |
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duh
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 10/09/2006 : 15:24:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Anyway, that's the excuse I use to tell sick jokes shortly after something bad happens.
Which reminds me of the novel that most influenced me during my formative years, Stranger In A Strange Land. My favorite part is where the characters discuss the nature of humor and why tragic things are sometimes funny. |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 10/09/2006 : 21:39:47
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by Randall
On WTC, I'm curious about whether there's any emotional disconnect among people who don't live in NYC or DC, or among non-Americans; IOW, does it affect you less the farther away you are from Ground Zero? After all, the Bali massacre was senseless, horrific, utterly evil, but we in America were half a world away: we were shocked, saddened, but not stunned into incoherence like we were on 9/11. We were freaked the morning of the London bombings, but that was partly because we knew particular people: my first thought was, is benj OK? [Not understanding exactly where benj lives, mind, but still.]
Yes, very much so. And coming from Israel, I can tell you that while 9/11 was a huge tragedy for the USA, and New York in particular, people are starting to think that the US (and George Bush in particular) should really start calming down about it, already.
Let's put this into perspective:
The number of people who died is around 2900.
The population of the USA is over 290 million. That means that .001% of the citizens of the USA died that day.
The US has active troops in the amount of 1.4 million. Over 2700 troops have been killed in Iraq so far. That's almost .2% of your military.
What we wonder is: why is it that there isn't more outrage at the deaths of your soldiers in Iraq and this useless war there, than there is mourning for those that died on 9/11?
#1: Osama's self-stated goal was not to rack up some kind of video-game kill score, but to disrupt the economic [WTC], military [Pentagon], and political [Flight 93 was headed either for the White House or the Capitol] infrastructure of the US. None of this happened, though you might say the event did make it possible for the neocons to bully us into wasting untold billions in Iraq. In other words, it didn't work. This is why we in New York are a little antsy about nukes thse days.
#2: There are plenty of Americans who are outraged at the deaths of our soldiers, and who do not subscribe to President Bush's response. Plenty. |
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World Trade Center
