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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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 Posted - 10/05/2006 : 21:25:17
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| I find it fascinating that benj hasn't poked his head in here yet. I wonder if he's been busy, or if he's just lurking seeing what we have to say about it before he chimes in. |
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Conan The Westy 
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 10/05/2006 : 22:22:42
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Good topic even if I am late in catching it.
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
NUDITY/LANGUAGE and the MESSAGES THEY SEND
So-called Page Three girls - usually bare-breasted - are commonplace on British news-stands ... SNIP but that there are different criteria for showing men. (slightly misquoted)
I have no problem with pictures of bare chested men.
quote:
POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS STUFF
It can only be healthy, IMHO, that reviews which proclaim a variety of political and/or religious views are published here. None should cause offence and none should be censored.
As a Christian, I don't enjoy some of the reviews on The Last Temptation Of Christ for example. I choose to exercise my democratic right to withhold my vote. The same applies to reviews with really bad language (unless it's extremely witty  ).
quote:
FINALLY
Because one of my prime credos is: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you ...
I thought the quote was do unto others before they do unto you... maybe I need to read the Good Book at bit more carefully.  |
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lemmycaution 
"Long mired in film"
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Posted - 10/05/2006 : 22:52:54
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| You mean it's not "Do unto others and then split"? |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 10/05/2006 : 23:15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
The leader of the Squadron has a black dog, named Nigger. In the context of the film the name is not overtly racist - it seems that, at that time in the UK it was entirely OK to call a black dog Nigger.
Perhaps not overtly racist, but is it altogether non-racist? I'm not so sure. The fact that this name was used means that they were racist. I'm undecided as to whether it would be better not to mention this name at all now. However, your anti-racist review (and I don't think you needed to explain it!  ) is at least the best possible context.
The use of the name in 1943 is hard for us to fathom today, which is why I described it as not overtly racist. There is no question that there was then, and is now, racism in our society. Maybe the biggest difference is we are much more careful about showing it. And my explanation was in case some members were not familiar with the film - I know YOU didn't need it.
quote:
I was particularly relieved/pleased that MGuyX, who is the only fourumite I know to be black, said it was a great review which everyone should vote for.
This certainly is a genuine endorsement, but it is still subjective. MguyX may or may not have similar views to the majority of black people as to when this term may be used.
I have known people defend the use of the word 'coloured' because they have an elderly black neighbour who uses it. Since this term was generally considered offensive by the time I was born, this reasoning holds no water with me.
I don't think MGuyX is a typical anything, but I genuinely respect his opinion as a highly intelligent, articulate Black American who does not take racism lightly. I equally have no doubt that some Black people will be offended by my review, but IMHO they shouldn't be.
For my parents generation, calling a Black person "coloured" was a very polite term and meant to be the least offensive way of referring to their ethnicity. Back then "Black" was considered a coarse term. It would have been very hard for my parents to reverse these notions.
Incidentally, I come from a very short generation for whom the term "lady" is an unacceptable term. For most people older or younger its perfectly OK, but for my generation it was classist and condescending. |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 01:36:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
I have also talked at length before about this 'intention' notion. Yes, it is people's intentions that are the main thing BUT... intentions are not transmitted via telepathy - they are transmitted via words. So intention can only override contradictory use of words if the listener/reader happens to already be certain of the speaker/writer's viewpoint. When in doubt, it is the content of the words to which we must refer. Further, even if the intention happens to be clear, individuals do not own words. Words come with their own complex meanings (very much including nuances and implications) that are not disposable should the speaker/writer prefer. If a word was coined in an offensive context, that inherent offensiveness does not just evaporate.
True, but if anyone who's about to say/write anything looks at possible 'offensive nuances' in their chosen words/phrases, then they'd end up saying nothing. You can say virtually anything in an offensive way using any choice of words.
An example:- I was driving through a town in Kenya that I lived in once, there were a few hundred people visible, and I had an Afrikaner sitting next to me who I had just picked up from the airport, and he said "They breed like flies, don't they?" He didn't need to say "The kaffirs" in place of "They" which is what he meant (Afrikaners use the word 'kaffir' in place of 'nigger'). So in this instance the word "they" became patently offensive. E.g., I'll put this Afrikaner back in Kenya and make up some offensive sentences for him:-
"Are there many of them there?"
"They are waiting near the gate."
etc. Anyone want to ban the words "them" or "they"? I can still hear him saying those words, and coming out of his mouth the words are filled with hate, he really means "fucking nigger/kaffir black bastards".
Another example, also in Kenya. A Welshman employed by us for a time used the words "senior" and "junior" a lot. The former referred to whites, the latter to blacks. He was a racist bigot (and also a pedophile). Hence the word "junior" became patently offensive.
I could go on and on. Self-censorship (or censorship by others) based on potential offense in words/phrases has no end. This in my view is the principal reason for the constant change in words/phrases used to describe any disadvantaged minority. E.g., "black" or "coloured" are tarnished as they have been used in an offensive manner. Same with "subnormal" or "retarded" or "intellectually handicapped", they have all been and gone and are politically incorrect as they can be used in an offensive manner, like the words "they" or "them". There is no logical end to this irrational process.
So, I decided quite some time ago that language is simply a convenient medium for transferring a thought from someone's brain into someone else's brain (due to the unfortunate lack of telepathy). So when someone says something I'm only interested in what they meant, not their choice of words. And if I intend to communicate a thought to ten other people and one of them takes offense because the words I chose to use are not the same words that they would themselves have chosen, then that's unfortunate but I don't lose any sleep over it and won't change anything. If however eight of them had taken offense (causing the message to have not been received) then obviously it's in my interest to re-phrase the statement. So in my view intent is everything.
Also, given that 'normal' words like "them" can quickly become offensive (because it's the speaker's position that's offensive), then so-called offensive words can quickly become non-offensive if used in a non-offensive manner. So, who's offended by this sentence:- "I like niggers, gooks, faggots and subnormal retards."
If everone on the planet decided to use the word "cunt" 200 times per day, by the end of the week it would be one of the most boring words in the English language. Perhaps I'll get started:- You're all cunts!   |
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Catuli
"Loves Film and Fun"
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 01:46:40
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Of course there's another reason...more pragmatic than principled...for sidestepping the use of offensive language in reviews, and that is not to turn off prospective voters. Anyway, I've decided to submit my penultimately offensive review, and if it's accepted you can all respond by writing "you call that milquetoast piece of harmless blather offensive?!!!", or words to that effect.
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 01:48:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
For most people older or younger its perfectly OK, but for my generation it was classist and condescending.
What's wrong with that? |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 02:21:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
[brIf everone on the planet decided to use the word "cunt" 200 times per day, by the end of the week it would be one of the most boring words in the English language. Perhaps I'll get started:- You're all cunts!
Yay! Lenny Bruce lives!
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 03:55:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Catuli
Of course there's another reason...more pragmatic than principled...for sidestepping the use of offensive language in reviews, and that is not to turn off prospective voters. Anyway, I've decided to submit my penultimately offensive review, and if it's accepted you can all respond by writing "you call that milquetoast piece of harmless blather offensive?!!!", or words to that effect.
LOL no kidding...after all the suspense, this better be pretty darn offensive. You may have set our expectations too low. |
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thefoxboy
"Four your eyes only."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 04:43:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
If everone on the planet decided to use the word "cunt" 200 times per day, by the end of the week it would be one of the most boring words in the English language. Perhaps I'll get started:- You're all cunts!
You can't spell, you cunt. |
Edited by - thefoxboy on 10/06/2006 04:43:46 |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 04:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by thefoxboy
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
If everyone on the planet decided to use the word "cunt" 200 times per day, by the end of the week it would be one of the most boring words in the English language. Perhaps I'll get started:- You're all cunts!
You can't spell, you cunt.
I knew this would work! If everyone else jumps in and calls everyone else a cunt then it's offensiveness will disappear!  |
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Stalean
"Back...OMG"
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 05:38:07
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As I said, if you watch "Deadwood," you won't even have to utter the profanities yourself...
- The show that holds the record for the most numerous utterances of the word [fuck] on television is the HBO series Deadwood. The constant use of the word soon inspired a web site dedicated to keeping track of the Deadwood Fuck Count, which has recorded about 1.54 fucks per minute. Many of those expletives, and others colorful phrases, are spoken by the character Al Swearengen, played by Ian McShane, who won the 2005 Golden Globe Award for best actor in a television drama for his role in Deadwood.
- Deadwood Profanity Counts
- I can attest that "Cunt" and "Cocksucker" are beginning to gain ground in utterances.
- There is a character on the show whose name is "The Nigger General."
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 08:10:43
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We've come a long way since Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols outraged a nation and sent an entire genre of rock music underground in the infamous Bill Grundy interview of 1976. Scroll down to the bottom to see the filth that changed the world. 
Progress has undoubtedly been made since then. The sooner swearing becomes inoffensive the better.
But then what will I say if I wanna insult someone?
...mother sucks cocks in hell....
...sodomise dead donkeys....
....felch rabid baboons....
... I'm sure I'll think of something... you cunts! |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 08:51:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
But then what will I say if I wanna insult someone?
... I'm sure I'll think of something... you cunts!
How's about: You troglodytic deciduous mesomorphic plinth.
Sincerely yours
BaftaCunt
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 10/06/2006 : 09:52:47
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That's it!! I refuse to vote on this fourum topic.  |
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Language Restriction
