| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Beanmimo 
"August review site"
|
 Posted - 11/14/2006 : 16:43:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by redPen
Conan, thanks for the self-clarification.
Whip, I gotcha pretty much on all. But in your own admission, it's all a matter of self-editing and decision-making. "Do I think it's too similar?" etc. To me, "Seeing" and "Shaving" weren't even close to being the same thing.
Ali, thanks for the input, but on a personal note, don't EVER quote King to me on the subject of being "original." The man stole all his career, and no one's called him on it. I love his "Dark Tower" series, but it isn't even a thinly-veiled theft of Tolkien. He deserves to be cast out of all the writers' clubs, yet instead, he continues to be rewarded. As a more recent example, remember a year or so ago when he "retired"? Well, I had no doubt whatsoever that he'd be back, and in short order, too. Just another lame attempt to drum up sales. ("King's retiring? I must buy his last book!" . . . "King's back? Hallelujah, where's his new classic?" etc.) 
Just personal opinions . . . once again.
Thanks to all for your input on this and everything. I really do love this community of yours (dare I say "ours"?), and the intelligent debating/bantering/asskicking is merely one attractive part.
King wrote the Dark Tower series when he was at his most addicted to a cocktail of prescription and illegal drugs, it'd be his editors you should be angry at if anyone for cashing in on that.
He 'retired' due to being knocked down by a camper van and going through 18 months of agonising operations and recuperation. If it was a publicity stunt it was the most elaborate I've heard of. |
 |
|
|
Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 16:58:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by redPen
Conan, thanks for the self-clarification.
Whip, I gotcha pretty much on all. But in your own admission, it's all a matter of self-editing and decision-making. "Do I think it's too similar?" etc. To me, "Seeing" and "Shaving" weren't even close to being the same thing.
Eh, no, they aren't. But Seeing (your review) and Showing (Joe's) are. We are seeing because the filmmaker and Meg are showing. The reviews have, effectively, the same thing ie Meg shows her privates.
As I said in a previous post, "Shaving Ryan's Privates" would be the best review IMO, but, alas, it is "FACTUALLY INACCURATE". 
And it is OUR community, led by Good King Benj. 
|
|
|
|
MguyXXV 
"X marks the spot"
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 17:29:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Sorry!
Forgiven?
Absolutely. And I apologize for taking your joke too seriously. If it weren't for the fact that I'm black, I might lighten up some time.  |
|
|
|
Whippersnapper.
"A fourword thinking guy."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 18:21:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Sorry!
Forgiven?
Absolutely. And I apologize for taking your joke too seriously. If it weren't for the fact that I'm black, I might lighten up some time.
Thats not always the case though... |
Edited by - Whippersnapper. on 11/14/2006 18:23:55 |
|
|
|
MM0rkeleb
"Better than HBO."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 19:37:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by redPen
Conan, thanks for the self-clarification.
Whip, I gotcha pretty much on all. But in your own admission, it's all a matter of self-editing and decision-making. "Do I think it's too similar?" etc. To me, "Seeing" and "Shaving" weren't even close to being the same thing.
Ali, thanks for the input, but on a personal note, don't EVER quote King to me on the subject of being "original." The man stole all his career, and no one's called him on it. I love his "Dark Tower" series, but it isn't even a thinly-veiled theft of Tolkien. He deserves to be cast out of all the writers' clubs, yet instead, he continues to be rewarded. As a more recent example, remember a year or so ago when he "retired"? Well, I had no doubt whatsoever that he'd be back, and in short order, too. Just another lame attempt to drum up sales. ("King's retiring? I must buy his last book!" . . . "King's back? Hallelujah, where's his new classic?" etc.)
Just personal opinions . . . once again.
Thanks to all for your input on this and everything. I really do love this community of yours (dare I say "ours"?), and the intelligent debating/bantering/asskicking is merely one attractive part.
Well, I'm a huge Stephen King fan, so for the purpose of keeping peace I'll restrain my self to asking just how the Dark Tower series qualifies as "isn't even a thinly veiled theft of Tolkein?" About the only similarities between them are a world on the brink of obliteration and a group setting out on a quest, both of which are very common story elements, and were certainly aroung long before Tolkein.
By way of contrast, to my eye, the Dark Tower series has deeper, richer characters, deeper and more ambiguous concerns than a simple good vs. evil, and much better writing (I've always found Tolkein to be very, very dry - dessicated, almost). That is, King wrote a story, and Tolkein wrote a history, which is fine if that does it for you (it doesn't for me).
By the way, it is true that King does owe a debt to Tolkein (and Browning, and Leone, and so on), and this is something he readily admits.
Also, the bit from On Writing which Ali quoted was not about originality. It was about how, in the general process of writing, a scene or something that you especially like might not be the right thing for the story, and so you have to kill it.
Also also, don't mind my hostile tone. I'm just being a prick. 
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
King wrote the Dark Tower series when he was at his most addicted to a cocktail of prescription and illegal drugs, it'd be his editors you should be angry at if anyone for cashing in on that.
I think you're wrong on that. His drug-addicted phase was in the 80's, roughly from Cujo to the Tommyknockers. The only parts of the Dark Tower series that were written during this period were the latter part of The Gunslinger and The Drawing of the Three.
quote:
He 'retired' due to being knocked down by a camper van and going through 18 months of agonising operations and recuperation. If it was a publicity stunt it was the most elaborate I've heard of.
That's not what redPen was referring to. There was an announcement (around the time he was working on the last three Dark Tower books - and thus significantly after the accident) that he would retire once he finished the series. Apparently he's changed his mind, but I highly doubt it was to drum up sales. King is already rich enough, and he never wrote for the money. He writes because he loves the craft too much to give it up.
|
Edited by - MM0rkeleb on 11/14/2006 19:44:11 |
|
|
|
Cheese_Ed
"The Provolone Ranger"
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 21:19:38
|
As long as we're on the King of all tangents...
I've read not quite half of King's books, I guess I'm a fan, but not a rabid one. I'll probably get around to the rest someday.
Just curious which ones are your favorites or least favorites, Mork or anybody. No spoilers, please!
I have read:
Dead Zone, The
Different Seasons
Drawing of the Three, The
Eyes of the Dragon, The
Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, The
Green Mile, The
Gunslinger, The
Hearts in Atlantis
Insomnia
Night Shift
Nightmares and Dreamscapes
Rose Madder
Salem's Lot
Shining, The
Skeleton Crew
Stand, The
Waste Lands, The
Wizard and Glass
Gerald's Game
Misery
From a Buick 8
Talisman, The
Long Walk, The
Rage
Roadwork
Running Man, The
Thinner
Have not read:
Regulators, The
Bag of Bones
Black House: The Talisman 2
Carrie
Christine
Cujo
Blood and Smoke
Cell
Cycle of the Werewolf
Dark Half, The
Dark Tower V, The: Wolves of the Calla
Dark Tower VI, The: Song of Susannah
Dark Tower VII, The: Dark Tower, The
Desperation
Dolan's Cadillac
Dolores Claiborne
Dreamcatcher
Everything's Eventual
Firestarter
Four Past Midnight
It
Needful Things
Pet Sematary
Riding the Bullet
Secret Windows
Six Stories
Stationary Bike
Storm of the Century
Tommyknockers
The Plant
Lisey's Story
The Colorado Kid
|
|
|
|
thefoxboy 
"Four your eyes only."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 21:30:28
|
| I haven't read many but Misery is one that I love. |
|
|
|
benj clews 
"...."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 21:40:14
|
I really loved It (it'd take a monster mini-series to do that book any justice). Oh, and Misery's the only book, Dr Seuss books aside, I've ever gone back to read again.
But my favourite has to be The Green Mile- I remember reading it when it was being released as a six-part serial and although I'm not a fast reader by any means, I was always bang up-to-date and gagging for the next book in no time |
|
|
|
Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 21:45:55
|
When I was in junior high school I read a lot of Stephen King and it seems my mother thought that might have meant I was disturbed or something. She actually called the guidance counselor who I ended up having to go see...after talking to me about it he told my mother she should be happy I was actually reading books.
I've lost interest in most of his work but I'm still a fan of the Dark Tower series, although it took something of a disappointing turn after Wizards & Glass. |
|
|
|
MM0rkeleb
"Better than HBO."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 22:09:28
|
As far as the Dark Tower series goes, 1 is the best, though 4 and 7 are also very strong. I'm not sure what to think of 5 and 6 - he seems to be spinning his wheels a bit, but some of it is very good and some of it is very necessary later.
In general, his great works (IMHO) are
The Long Walk (my favorite novel written by anyone, ever)
Dead Zone, The
Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, The
Gunslinger, The
Hearts in Atlantis (the same-titled novella as opposed to the whole anthology)
Salem's Lot
Shining, The
Wizard and Glass
Misery
From a Buick 8 (easily his most ambitious, and yes, I'm including the Dark Tower series)
Rage
Bag of Bones
Christine (my second favorite novel written by anyone, ever)
Dark Tower VII, The: Dark Tower, The
Desperation
Firestarter (VERY underrated, even among his fans)
Needful Things
Pet Sematary
That's not including the short stories, some of which are really good, especially 10 O'Clock People, The Ledge, The Boogeyman, 1408, and Riding the Bullet.
I've read almost all of his stuff, save the recent works (post-Dark-Tower), and Gerald's Game and Rose Madder. |
|
|
|
randall
"I like to watch."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 22:42:17
|
King is a fine, versatile writer, he knows good from bad, and he's willing to take chances. He follows in the great centuries-long Anglo-American tradition of creepy fiction, which he not only admits, but also celebrates. To say THE DARK TOWER tracks Tolkien? To me, the only obvious similarities are the words "quest" and "tower."
His scariest book? THE SHINING. For my very first trip to Europe in 1976, I packed the paperback because I'd heard it was Stanley Kubrick's forthcoming project. I'd never read King before. You Europeans know how close the opposing train comes to you, and how fast, and how loudly. But I didn't. That book was so intense, and shut out everything else so successfully, that I threw it against the compartment ceiling at least four times when the oncoming train startled me! [For example, just when he was opening the forbidden hotel room door...]
My favorite of all? THE STAND. There's a quest for you, but instead of the Victorian patois that fills Tolkien's Shire, this one is told in modern-day [at least, Seventies] jargon. It was a revelation. [Read it in the revised author's cut released in about 1990 if you can. The TV-movie adaptation pales beside the complete novel.]
King has, as did Eudora Welty, a wonderful ear. And his first-person narration can make you feel like you're the character's best friend.
Best movie from his material? THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION. STAND BY ME is #2. [And neither one is a horror movie!]
Worst? Too many to name. |
Edited by - randall on 11/14/2006 22:53:04 |
|
|
|
randall
"I like to watch."
|
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 22:45:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by M0rkeleb
I've read almost all of his stuff, save the recent works (post-Dark-Tower), and Gerald's Game and Rose Madder.
GERALD'S GAME is quite interesting. I think King gives himself challenges. For example, in MISERY, he wondered, "Can I write a close-set novel, largely with only two characters, and still make it suspenseful?" With GERALD'S GAME, he said, "OK, I did it with two. How about a close-set nail-biter with only one character?" Guess what: he did it! |
|
|
|
Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
|
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 00:11:08
|
My favourites are It and Tommyknockers, excellent books. I lost interest at about The Dark Half. I got the feeling he was running out of ideas, it became too contrived.
If writing books that you just don't want to put down is the mark of a good writer, then King is a great writer. |
|
|
|
w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
|
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 02:40:47
|
I may as well jump on the Stephen King bandwagon. I started reading him in high school, which fairly much correlated with his career. I've loved almost all his works, save maybe Gerald's Game (uncomfortable theme to me). Having said that, I've read everything, yea everything, he's written except Lisey's Story, which is on my Christmas list. For years, my ex's family gave me the new King for Christmas.. smart marketing, I expect.
My favorites include:
The Green Mile - I loved the serial release that they used, I ran to the bookstore everytime a new one came out. Still trying to get them back from my sister...
Salem's Lot - one of his earliest totally scary books, kept me awake at night with a crucifix and garlic
The Shining - he managed to evoke a sensory response - I could SMELL that woman in Room 237
The Stand - My all time favorite. For several years, I dragged this out late-June so I could follow the time line in my mind as the real time approached. and again with the sensory stimulus in the tunnel
It - the theme character has always been scary to me
Pet Sematary - it made me uncomfortable, gave me nightmares
The best King screen adaptations were The Shawshank Redemption, The Body (Stand by Me), The Green Mile, and actually, the Salem's Lot from years ago with David Soul, and although I expected a lot would be left out of it - The Stand, with Rob Lowe and the guy from Coach.
I've never thought King was stealing. There are universal themes that touch most all of us, and he's a master at tapping into that. That he tapped into themes that had been explored before is inevitable when you speak of horror. King tapped into it and took it further than it was before. In this day and age of jadedness, he found a voice that people responded to, myself included. |
|
|
|
Stalean
"Back...OMG"
|
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 03:15:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ali
Last week, I deleted a particular favourite of mine for Marathon Man, namely: "Nazi transcends dental medication." It had already been accepted, had received 10 or so votes, but I realised, while going over the other reviews for the film, that someone else had thought of it before I did. Oh well.
Mine May 13, 2005 'transcends' even that one November 2, 2005 by Markandlain and this one May 9, 2006 by Alan Smithee.
BTW, The Stand is my favorite Stephen King novel (that I have read). I became dissatisfied with his writing because, IMO, he never seems to know how to end his books (including The Stand). |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Okay, NOW I'm pissed!
