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silly 
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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 Posted - 11/28/2006 : 20:14:43
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Originally posted by Downtown
It's not like either of these was an invisible car.
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We face each other as God intended. Sportsmanlike. No tricks, no weapons, skill against skill alone.
You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people?
Indeed, you are right. This one was more "real" than many movies (Bond and not-bond) have been lately. |
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randall 
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 11/28/2006 : 20:28:57
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Originally posted by Rovark
Yup, what Downtown and Randall just said.
This is the first Bond in over 15 years I've actually shelled out some hard-earned on, and frankly it was worth every penny.
Minor quibbles with the cell phone trace and medical diagnosis gizmo, but hey, I'm actually thinking " I wonder what the next one will be like" and looking forward to it.
nb. She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed doesn't like Bond but went along 'cos it's my birthday today (yay me!) and she said it was good. so it really must be. 
Omigod! Mine too! And Jimi Hendrix's! Happy belated birthday, mate! |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 11/28/2006 : 20:35:20
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quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
In Brosnan's defence, I feel I should mention he was doing the whole injured Bond thing before the newly invented Bond.
If there's one thing in DAD's favour, it's that the shoulder injury Bond sustained at the start of TWINE seems to be continuing to plague him in DAD. Brosnan seemed to have a canny knack of throwing in little details and quirks like that.
I couldn't agree more: both about Brosnan's subtle acting choice, and Eon's obvious wish to make Bond more vulnerable. When he was captured, jailed and tortured early in the flick, I thought that was revolutionary and perked up in my seat. However, just about the time he walked into the hotel looking like Charles Manson and received five-star treatment, I realized I'd forgotten to park my brain at the door once again.
This time, they didn't even ask for it!
P.S. Best [worst!] Bond torture scene ever in CR, and it was so simple!!! You know the laser will never part young Sean's privates in GOLDFINGER, but this one looked like it HURT! |
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Rovark 
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"
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Posted - 11/28/2006 : 22:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Randall
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Originally posted by Rovark
Yup, what Downtown and Randall just said.
This is the first Bond in over 15 years I've actually shelled out some hard-earned on, and frankly it was worth every penny.
Minor quibbles with the cell phone trace and medical diagnosis gizmo, but hey, I'm actually thinking " I wonder what the next one will be like" and looking forward to it.
nb. She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed doesn't like Bond but went along 'cos it's my birthday today (yay me!) and she said it was good. so it really must be.
Omigod! Mine too! And Jimi Hendrix's! Happy belated birthday, mate!
Happy birthday to yourself, just sent a couple of prezzies via Sludge's pile of previously unvoted.
And happy birthday Jimi |
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tortoise
"Still reviewing, but slowly."
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 14:32:58
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Originally posted by ChocolateLady
One of my favourite scenes in TND is when he wants to use Yeoh's computer and it opens up to a keyboard in Chineese and he has to let her do it. Other Bonds would have suddenly been fluent in Chineese and been able to use that keyboard.
Ah but in You Only Live Twice (the film version at least) we discover that Bond has a degree in Oriental Languages. So this same scene in TND actually irked me. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 15:00:38
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Originally posted by tortoise
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Originally posted by ChocolateLady
One of my favourite scenes in TND is when he wants to use Yeoh's computer and it opens up to a keyboard in Chineese and he has to let her do it. Other Bonds would have suddenly been fluent in Chineese and been able to use that keyboard.
Ah but in You Only Live Twice (the film version at least) we discover that Bond has a degree in Oriental Languages. So this same scene in TND actually irked me.
I always thought he could speak Oriental languages. Doesn't mean he can type in them as well.
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Ali 
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 16:07:20
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I hated Casino Royale. But then again I think the whole franchise is so, well, dull ("Licence to Meh?"). Not to mention that the plotline of this particular installment was both out of touch and anachronistic. The banker to the world's terrorists runs a high-class poker game with which he finances his business? Spare me. (The concept could work with a certain imaginative panache, wistfullness and sense of irony - all of which the Bond films have been lacking for almost as long as I have been alive) A chase scene on a runway involving a regular sedan and an oil truck. A Poker game that never ends, and not only because there is zero suspense in it. Plot "twists" that you can see a thousand miles off. A villainous scheme that you can drive a fleet of trucks through. I mean, who gives a shit?
It's not that I yearn for anything meaningful (in anything), but rather a sense of wonder, and huge, huge heaps of originality. It boils down to whether Bond shouldn't be kept as a relevant hero (in which case the entire approach of the past 20 years should be scrapped), or whether he shouldn't become a slightly tongue-in-cheek, post-modern parody of itself. Even if they went with the latter approach, in which case plotlines like that of Casino Royale would be fine, they still have to find different people to reboot the franchise. I can't think of an action director who has a blander vision than Martin Campbell, and no producer has fcuked up their franchise this badly since George Lucas thought to himself "I know what will make Star Wars better: a more kiddie friendly approach and a Jive-Talking Frog."
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tortoise
"Still reviewing, but slowly."
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 17:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
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Originally posted by tortoise
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
One of my favourite scenes in TND is when he wants to use Yeoh's computer and it opens up to a keyboard in Chineese and he has to let her do it. Other Bonds would have suddenly been fluent in Chineese and been able to use that keyboard.
Ah but in You Only Live Twice (the film version at least) we discover that Bond has a degree in Oriental Languages. So this same scene in TND actually irked me.
I always thought he could speak Oriental languages. Doesn't mean he can type in them as well.
I refer the honourable lady to the answer I gave some moments ago. I would imagine that it's difficult to attain a language degree (Cambridge at that, if memory serves) on oral skills alone (Moneypenny's memorable comment in TND notwithstanding). |
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 18:58:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
I hated Casino Royale. But then again I think the whole franchise is so, well, dull ("Licence to Meh?"). Not to mention that the plotline of this particular installment was both out of touch and anachronistic. The banker to the world's terrorists runs a high-class poker game with which he finances his business? Spare me. (The concept could work with a certain imaginative panache, wistfullness and sense of irony - all of which the Bond films have been lacking for almost as long as I have been alive) A chase scene on a runway involving a regular sedan and an oil truck. A Poker game that never ends, and not only because there is zero suspense in it. Plot "twists" that you can see a thousand miles off. A villainous scheme that you can drive a fleet of trucks through. I mean, who gives a shit?
It's not that I yearn for anything meaningful (in anything), but rather a sense of wonder, and huge, huge heaps of originality. It boils down to whether Bond shouldn't be kept as a relevant hero (in which case the entire approach of the past 20 years should be scrapped), or whether he shouldn't become a slightly tongue-in-cheek, post-modern parody of itself. Even if they went with the latter approach, in which case plotlines like that of Casino Royale would be fine, they still have to find different people to reboot the franchise. I can't think of an action director who has a blander vision than Martin Campbell, and no producer has fcuked up their franchise this badly since George Lucas thought to himself "I know what will make Star Wars better: a more kiddie friendly approach and a Jive-Talking Frog."
With all due respect, Ali:
Seems you got exactly what you deserved. You said yourself that you don't care for James Bond movies. So why spend your money on this one just to complain about all those things that actually make it a James Bond movie? Bond really isn't for everybody so I respect your opinion...but I'm just not sure why you set yourself up for disappointment.
By the way, Le Chiffre wasn't "financing his business" with a poker game. He finances his business with his clients' money. But he lost all that money and he was desperate to get it back in a hurry before he got killed. He's good at poker, so why not a poker game? If you were Le Chiffre, what would YOU do? |
Edited by - Downtown on 11/30/2006 00:18:52 |
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 19:00:10
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quote:
Originally posted by tortoise
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Originally posted by ChocolateLady
One of my favourite scenes in TND is when he wants to use Yeoh's computer and it opens up to a keyboard in Chineese and he has to let her do it. Other Bonds would have suddenly been fluent in Chineese and been able to use that keyboard.
Ah but in You Only Live Twice (the film version at least) we discover that Bond has a degree in Oriental Languages. So this same scene in TND actually irked me.
Well...he never said WHICH Oriental languages, right? Maybe he has a degree in Japanese and Korean but never studied Chinese. |
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 19:09:01
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Originally posted by demonic
Breaking into M's house, vanishing off to the Bahamas to crack your first case without any authorisation, all that stuff was dumb.
I have to STRONGLY disagree with this, especially the "vanishing off to the Bahamas" part. First of all, I think M was testing him...a "real" double-oh agent would never accept defeat and will keep working on the case until he gets to the bottom of it. More importantly, Bond has always "done his own thing" when working on a case, and always with MI6's approval (or they at least look the other way). Once, he even turned in his double-oh status to do so, and another time, he went off on his own after M actually recinded his double-oh status. And both times, MI6 still helped him on the case. Running off like that is PURE BOND.
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Oh, the defibrilator in the car was the worst moment. Good job that Vesper had full medical and electronic equipment training at the Treasury, having worked out that Bond had gone into cardiac arrest, obviously had a defib unit strapped to him (easily recognisable?), knew what was wrong with it and plugged the cable into the right place immediately. 
Gotta disagree with this part, too. First of all, it shouldn't surprise us Vesper showed up. Bond starts kicking ass at the poker table...then all of a sudden he gets up and runs out, looking very ill. Wouldn't she be likely to follow him and see what's up? She could have been watching the scene in the car the whole time...this isn't a Leone movie, where the characters' field of vision is limited to the audience's. And it was something as simple as just reconnecting a loose wire and then hitting a button. Why wouldn't she be able to figure that out? Furthermore, portable de-fibs are DESIGNED to be easy to use even if you haven't been trained. |
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silly
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 21:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
By the way, Le Chiffre wasn't "financing his business" with a poker game. He finances his business with his clients' money. But he lost all that money and he was desperate to get it back in a hurry before he got killed. He's good at poker, so why not a poker game? If you were Le Chiffre, what would YOU do?
Also, remember that the reason he lost the money in the first place was Mr. Bond meddling about at the airport. His plan to short the stock probably would have made him a profit otherwise.
And it was clear he loved to gamble. |
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silly
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 11/29/2006 : 21:36:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
Gotta disagree with this part, too. First of all, it shouldn't surprise us Vesper showed up. Bond starts kicking ass at the poker table...then all of a sudden he gets up and runs out, looking very ill. Wouldn't she be likely to follow him and see what's up?
On the second viewing this seemed to make more sense. They cut to her face as Bond falls ill and it was clear (to me) she will follow him out the door. After all, she has a vested interest in him, in more ways than one (we learn by the end of the flick)
Those were some itty-bitty defib wires though. Probably made from unobtanium or something to handle the current.
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 11/30/2006 : 01:38:55
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quote:
First of all, I think M was testing him...a "real" double-oh agent would never accept defeat and will keep working on the case until he gets to the bottom of it. More importantly, Bond has always "done his own thing" when working on a case, and always with MI6's approval (or they at least look the other way). Once, he even turned in his double-oh status to do so, and another time, he went off on his own after M actually recinded his double-oh status. And both times, MI6 still helped him on the case. Running off like that is PURE BOND.
OK - Bond is the kind of guy who ignores his superiors and behaves irrationally; usually something to get someone reassigned, but this is fiction after all. Worth pointing out in a realistic sense by the time he has his 00 status rescinded he has already single handedly saved the world ten times over, no wonder MI6 trust and accept his foibles. At this point in the mythos he's done nothing to gain anyone's trust, least of all M's. Just looked like a concocted way to have him grandstand and show off how good and subversive he is to the audience. It didn't impress me, it just made me think how implausible it was. Since when would an agent of any status or standing get away with accessing his superior's private computer, just because he could? Dumb.
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Gotta disagree with this part, too. First of all, it shouldn't surprise us Vesper showed up. Bond starts kicking ass at the poker table...then all of a sudden he gets up and runs out, looking very ill. Wouldn't she be likely to follow him and see what's up? She could have been watching the scene in the car the whole time...this isn't a Leone movie, where the characters' field of vision is limited to the audience's. And it was something as simple as just reconnecting a loose wire and then hitting a button. Why wouldn't she be able to figure that out? Furthermore, portable de-fibs are DESIGNED to be easy to use even if you haven't been trained.
Let's not pretend that anything around that part of the film was actually plausible. I had no problem with her being there, if anything she took her time getting there; she probably would have followed Bond directly out of the room seeing he's looking ropey and meant to be winning �15 million (she is meant to be his wife after all), and say she did have a good knowledge of the current wires and points for a portable defib unit (perhaps in five/ten years when everyone has one even I might have a clue what do to without taking a moments pause - I mean charging/firing the thing is one thing, but rewiring it is something else entirely), but the fact he returns to win a high pressure poker tournament looking completely fine a short time after he's been poisoned to the point where his heart has meant to have stopped and then been restarted by a large electrical charge should stretch even the most die-hard Bond fantatic's sense of the realistic.
A word in Ali's defence - I'm not really a big Bond fan, not since I was a teenager anyway, but this was meant to be a revisioning and fresh start for the character, so I expect that's why many people will pay to see it, to see how well it has been shaken and stirred. I thought it did a good job as I thought the action, if not the script, was pretty fine. For some Bond will remain redundant. |
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benj clews
"...."
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Posted - 11/30/2006 : 02:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by demonic
...but the fact he returns to win a high pressure poker tournament looking completely fine a short time after he's been poisoned to the point where his heart has meant to have stopped and then been restarted by a large electrical charge should stretch even the most die-hard Bond fantatic's sense of the realistic.
This is supposed to be a Bond who just takes the worst of knocks and just keeps coming back. Maybe it's not realistic in the real-world sense, but in the Bond universe it's far from the ridiculousness of previous Bond outings. He didn't exactly come back looking completely fine, though- he had a bit of a sweat on and was still adjusting his suit if I recall correctly.
Still, that's all mostly irrelevant. That scene was cleary cut to appear slightly ridiculous (after all, we don't actually know if Bond did come back into the game quite as soon as the edit made it seem). This in turn made it (a). funny (Le Chiffre's response was classic) and (b). a real "hurrah" moment for the audience- heck, even lethal poisoning doesn't stop Bond.
If it weren't for moments like those in Bond films, they wouldn't BE Bond films  |
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Casino Royale
