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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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 Posted - 01/31/2007 : 13:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Funny how language changes. Back in the very pc 1960's Greenwich Village, the hip way to refer to non-whites was 'spades' - its use was not only wide-spread but encouraged by non-whites as THE non-offensive term. And, I think I'm correct, it's when and where the word 'gay' came into popular usage equally encouraged by homosexuals of both genders.
Spade comes from (or from the same idea as) As black as the ace of spades. I would think this goes back much further than the Greenwich Village usage. While it may seem to just be descriptive and thus not explicitly racist, I think it is implicitly so, since (i) no black people are literally as black as the ace of spades and (ii) the vigour of the statement would be disproportionate to relaying a simple fact. I would guess that what was hip in Greenwich Village in the 1960s could very well have concurrently been offensive elsewhere.
Partly - but what was hip in the Village had an inevitable way of turning up in the mid-West about a decade later. Like Carnaby Street fashions and Chelsea Rd Mohawks becoming ubiquitous on Sheffield dance-floors in time! I well remember a tiny east village store selling used clothing which was run by two very hip black dudes who called it Spades in Shades.  The 'elsewhere' you mention was at the time probably referring to non-whites with far more blatantly offensive language. I was merely commenting on how what is acceptable for a time either goes out of currency or morphs into something else [as in your fine gay example!]
I hestitate to say this, but you know, Sal, I think people don't disagree with you as much as you think 
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/31/2007 : 14:11:44
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I just meant that, while spade evidently had a positive meaning there, I'm not so sure that it was coined positively. Therefore, I wouldn't say that that positive meaning has evolved into the current negative one - rather, I am guessing that the non-standard positive meaning fell by the wayside.
However... I've just looked at Wikipedia, which cites spade as being a UK term. Perhaps it was a common derogatory term here but a hip term in the States? |
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 01/31/2007 : 15:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
The latter cannot use a Catholic adoption agency.
Can now. 
Not in Massachusetts, they can't. Catholic Charities was told they couldn't participate in the state's adoption process if they were going to continue to discriminate against gay couples, so they decided the Christian thing to do was to get out of the adoption business altogether. I guess they decided that if they couldn't play quarterback they were going home and taking their football with them. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 01/31/2007 : 15:39:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
I just meant that, while spade evidently had a positive meaning there, I'm not so sure that it was coined positively. Therefore, I wouldn't say that that positive meaning has evolved into the current negative one - rather, I am guessing that the non-standard positive meaning fell by the wayside.
However... I've just looked at Wikipedia, which cites spade as being a UK term. Perhaps it was a common derogatory term here but a hip term in the States?
No, I'm sure you're right that it was originally a derogatory term wherever [and, who knows, may well be again]... it's just that during that brief period it was used by blacks and whites alike as a cool [aka hip] figure of speech.
I think I was musing on, e.g. 'wicked' which currently means terrific [which, incidentally originally meant something inducing terror]! As a writer, I'm fascinated by this stuff. Also - as I think someone's already mentioned in this thread - oral language is often perceived differently from written. And perhaps it's futile to make absolute rules about usage when the ideas that drive meaning are so fluid.
Just remember: the penis mightier than the sword
I'm mortal. Immortal. What's the difference? Just some space!
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/31/2007 : 16:45:59
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
I think I was musing on, e.g. 'wicked' which currently means terrific [which, incidentally originally meant something inducing terror]!
Another thing about this is that it used to be a really 'sad'/'lame' piece of slang (late 1980s/early 1990s). Then it went away for a while and came back cool. Cool itself, meanwhile, did not not become cool again till past the mid-1990s. I remember this because I used to use it in an intentionally retro sense, and it was not then typical to use it at all. (It was a bit like hip still is now. ) |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 01/31/2007 : 22:06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Just remember: the penis mightier than the sword
Mine is! |
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lemmycaution
"Long mired in film"
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Cheese_Ed
"The Provolone Ranger"
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Posted - 01/31/2007 : 23:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Just remember: the penis mightier than the sword
Mine is!
So is his |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 02/01/2007 : 02:53:22
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Sorry lemmy and Cheese, already voted.  |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 02/01/2007 : 09:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Sorry lemmy and Cheese, already voted.
Ditto. |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 02/01/2007 : 10:15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
...rules about usage when the ideas that drive meaning are so fluid.
Just remember: the penis mightier than the sword
Was it wise to mention fluid, drive & usage in the previous sentence? 
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Sorry lemmy and Cheese, already voted.
Ditto.
Ditto to your ditto. |
Edited by - Conan The Westy on 02/01/2007 10:25:05 |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/01/2007 : 11:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
...rules about usage when the ideas that drive meaning are so fluid.
Just remember: the penis mightier than the sword
Was it wise to mention fluid, drive & usage in the previous sentence?
[quote
Wise? Dunno.  Adorable? Of course! 
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 02/01/2007 : 17:53:58
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
I think I was musing on, e.g. 'wicked' which currently means terrific [which, incidentally originally meant something inducing terror]!
Wicked, that's VERY South Boston :) |
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Topic |
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Film of highly questionable taste
