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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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 Posted - 03/08/2007 : 10:57:14
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
OK, confession time. I've just seen The Host, and ....
I'm Hooked!  
I want to think about all the various levels upon which it works ... for now I'm just gob-smacked!
SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT
Oh, yeah - just wanted to say this is one of the few films I went into 'almost cold' - having only the seen the trailer - which is repro'd on YouTube which implied lots of Korean people were very scared because something very scary was chasing them.
So - I've been thinking about this to define for myself why I found it so effective.
First of all - it's genuinely funny when it can be. Which is to say it uses humour the way Shakespeare does in Hamlet. Not cheap gags, not making gore or fear or random death amusing - but deriving humour from character, and not just as an arbitrary relief from tension. There is, for example, a scene of family grief that's one of the funniest I've seen -- but that's because in light of both the circumstances and the dynamic between the family members, it makes perfect sense for emotions to be OTT.
The film doesn't play needless narrative tension games. You know this is going to involve a big scary monster, and POW you get the monster threat in the first reel -- after a very inciteful prologue.
Which brings me to a very important ingredient - the political metaphor. OK you don't have to get this to enjoy/appreciate the film, but once you see the parallels I believe you appreciate the film more. And it will still make you jump out of your seat!
The opening shots predate the main action by some 20 years and are based on a true incident involving a US mortician [a kind of alien] kitted out in lab gear, ordering his Korean underling [from the host country] to destroy a virtual lake-ful of formaldehyde by pouring all the bottles down the drain - merely because the bottles are dusty. The underling protests, pointing out the drains connect to the sewer-system which empties directly into the river that borders the town. Well, I think you can figure out at this stage that something nasty is going to happen under water. And, that the characters in the lab serve as personifications of the relationship between the US and Korea. And that this film is going to hub around Unintended Consequences.
Like many independent films coming from Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America, and in the way political allusions were used in genre westerns and crime thrillers by black-listed US filmmakers during the McCarthy era -- Korean cinema has learned that powerful political and socio-cultural messages can be disguised behind genre. That's because genre uses easily accessible archetypes.
In The Host the unintended consequences of a despostic individual result in a family's desperate rebellion against authority in order to save the youngest who's been captured by a seemingly indestructable monster which feeds on the society, and threatens its future.
The film works in genre terms because of the impeccable choices of the director and co-writer Bong Joon-ho [Memories of a Murder] - who knows exactly where to put the camera and the precise moment to cut any single shot to maximize the sense of terror. The leading actors play a family which exemplifies a wide-range of social status: the hard-working snack-shop owner father; the suit-and-tie conformist office-worker son who keeps his besuited image even in the most glutinous corridors of danger; the quiet but powerful daughter, a national sports heroine who's still testing herself; the slow-witted but passionate son, taking constant refuge in sleep until he's challanged into courageous, foolhardy action, by the capture of his daughter; and the little girl - hope for the future, intelligent, brave, resourceful.
Another reason the film works is because it's about people. Threats and monsters and fear and resolution - all the ingredients of the genre are there first and foremost to serve the story about the people. This family which we grow to care about. Not in a mushy way, not in a manipulative way, but in a very human way. They are individuals as well as archetypes, and though we honkies in the west are bound to regard daily life in South Korea as a tad alien, there's no doubt with whom we identify in the film.
The monster itself - after so many decades of so many monsters - proves there's always room on the monster shelf for another brilliant example of the species. The first glimpse we get of it, it's mistaken for something inanimate, then for something benign, and then -- well, there's no mistaking it after that. It's front end owes a lot to Alien, and threat comes from it's tail, too. But here's something new: it lollops like a friendly dog, even while it acts like Cerebus the Hellhound of myth. And I can't help thinking that's part of the political metaphor.
No wonder this film broke b.o. records and has already won several awards.
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 03/08/2007 : 11:09:25
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| I agree with you on all of that, B.B. I'm also glad that you saw it almost cold, since this is one of the examples I had in mind when I was talking about the advantage of being in such a situation. |
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rabid kazook 
"Pushing the antelope"
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Posted - 03/08/2007 : 12:00:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
How would people compare Korean cinema with Japanese cinema - if it is possible to generalise like that?
It's a completly hard task of comparing them firstly because Japanese cinema had put out really good movies since 1930s (Ozu, Mizoguchi, Kurosawa and lots and lots of others since) and Korean cinema (now I'm speaking of the South Korean cinema, that less communistic one) has yet (though to it's history) in the past 10 years become rejuvinated, and may I say what an rejuvination it is, a tremendously strong rejuvination.
Now if you're comparing last decades in the drama-making-wise I guess you couldn't tell that the movies of Kim Ki-duk, Hong Sang-soo, Shohei Imamura... are S. Korean or Japanese or even of some other Asian cinematographies, but in the terms of crime movies and other genre-curved movies, S. Korean director's seem to be making them a bit more coolish (Park, Bong), and distancing self from some Japanese-like types of story, codes of behavior, codes of belonging... (Kitano) and so far pointlessly violent/wierd aspects (Miike).
Two other things...
1. Japanese are dominant in horror-genre making (Nakata, Shimizu, K. Kurosawa, Miike...), though S.Koreans have some aces up their sleeve
2. Japanese are dominant in anime making (Hayao Miyazaki)
Anyhow that's my look at these I've got through movie-watching, and I'm not a big of a knower, so i might have missed something... or a lot... You could look up these links, for some insight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Japan
That said I think Memories of Muder will be right down your bowling alley, I think. You might also like Daisy, a cudly romance movie fused with crime subplots, I didn't thought it was all that, but some of you could like it, as half of the movie is really really sweet. A Dirty Carnival is another pitch at the neo-noir genre (like A Bittersweet Life was), but I haven't seen it... but so waiting to... Oldboy is very very violent, so hmmm... I'm distancing myself from a recommendation of some sort. Ahjong.  |
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rabid kazook
"Pushing the antelope"
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Posted - 03/08/2007 : 12:22:37
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THE HOST SPOILERS
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Oh, yeah - just wanted to say this is one of the few films I went into 'almost cold' - having only the seen the trailer - which is repro'd on YouTube which implied lots of Korean people were very scared because something very scary was chasing them.
Ahhh, that's too much... you obviously knew when there would be... rampage. Salopian was more lucky. 
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
it's genuinely funny when it can be. Which is to say it uses humour the way Shakespeare does in Hamlet. Not cheap gags, not making gore or fear or random death amusing - but deriving humour from character, and not just as an arbitrary relief from tension. There is, for example, a scene of family grief that's one of the funniest I've seen -- but that's because in light of both the circumstances and the dynamic between the family members, it makes perfect sense for emotions to be OTT.
Family shouting and fighting at the funeral ... hmmm that was too much... didn't laugh. Funny bum... hmmm... they were too much trying to chuck out laughs... didn't laugh. Some black humor in Memories worked so much better.
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
The monster itself - after so many decades of so many monsters - proves there's always room on the monster shelf for another brilliant example of the species. The first glimpse we get of it, it's mistaken for something inanimate, then for something benign, and then -- well, there's no mistaking it after that. It's front end owes a lot to Alien, and threat comes from it's tail, too. But here's something new: it lollops like a friendly dog, even while it acts like Cerebus the Hellhound of myth. And I can't help thinking that's part of the political metaphor.
Cool, wousy yes, it's a fantastic monster, but how contrived it is to see it had kept the girl alive... this we've seen all before folks, so many times... also though the political metaphor was "too much in your face". |
Edited by - rabid kazook on 03/08/2007 12:23:00 |
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 03/08/2007 : 16:12:32
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I must say one of my favourite moments was the excessive family grief - just because it went on and on I started giggling and by the end was pretty much wiping away the tears. I love slapstick when it's properly timed and I think Bong nailed it there. Some of the other funny moments missed their mark for me.
I loved the daughter trying to escape the pit past the sleeping mutant. That scene sticks in my mind. Great tension!
Seeing Scott Wilson as the US scientist was a pleasure too -he's one of those actors I love to see working (In the Heat of the Night, In Cold Blood, The Ninth Configuration, Exorcist III, Monster etc).
Otherwise there were some very odd choices in the plot and I felt the end was a big letdown for me; just not very satisfying. |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/09/2007 : 03:00:39
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Looking forward to The Host. It's a bit early to get it in NZ though  , it might make a festival appearance before the DVD arrives.
Of the other recommendations made above I've only been able to find The Isle and The Quiet Family and A Bittersweet Life, and I've now netflixed them.  |
Edited by - Sean on 03/09/2007 03:23:11 |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 03/09/2007 : 07:30:39
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quote:
Originally posted by demonic
Seeing Scott Wilson as the US scientist was a pleasure too -he's one of those actors I love to see working (In the Heat of the Night, In Cold Blood, The Ninth Configuration, Exorcist III, Monster etc).
Dem -- am SO glad you noticed Scott. He's not only a wonderful actor, but a truly delightful person. I got to know him when he came over to England to play the cuckolded George Wilson in The Great Gatsby in the mid-1970s. He'd already been tipped as a big star when he and Robert Blake played Richard Hickock, one of the two killers in In Cold Blood [which is the film of the book that Truman Capote was researching in both Capote and Infamous]. While he was over here he met a lovely young Chinese lawyer whose name translates as Heavenly; they fell in love and eventually got married after she passed the US bar.
I've never been able to figure out that, although Scott does work pretty steadily, he's never been elevated to the star status he deserved after that early success. Ah, well ...
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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 03/21/2007 : 22:23:52
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Reporting back on my Korean cinema experiences so far. I won't give away any spoilers since this thread has avoided them (for these two films) so far.
Oldboy
I would call this Shakespearian in the way it is used now to talk about bold dramatic and tragic plot mechanics and reveals. The idea of revenge consuming someone to the extent that it becomes who they are is of course part of ancient stories from many cultures. And yes, it is very gory in places.
In many ways it is more than possible to work out where this film is going to end up - but for me at least I didn't guess. For those of you who have seen the film you will know that the way the plot is played out, it requires thinking about the lowest man can go to punish someone else to get to the truth. The ending is both sad - but also enigmatic.
Memories of Murder
I loved this film for all sorts of reasons. I think the fact it was set in the 80s prior to computers and mobile phones was a bonus for me too - I don't really know why! It's got a classic storyline - city cop goes to country 'backwater' and is confronted with a different type of 'policing'. It is of course very funny in places - particularly the situations set up by the relationships between the characters. The historical background is interesting too - both the war with the north, and the use of 'new' techniques from the FBI, like DNA. The explanation that the FBI have to use their heads because America is such a big country but Korean police can use their feet is basically the 'detecting conflict' set up here.
I am trying to find out more about the true story.
So, that's three movies from Korean cinema I've seen now (Bittersweet Life being the other one) and I'm certainly interested in more. I'm trying to track down as many of the recommendations from everyone as I can.
In a very generalised way (I'm basing this on three movies and I know that's naff) there is a different feel about society in general so far. Japanese influences and shared cultural practices are apparent, but it is true that the notion of obedience and loyalty to social structures is not a strong theme, as it is in Japanese movies (even the horrors).
I would be interested in any Korean films that deal directly with teenage rebellion or questioning of authority/elders. Or that explicity tackle changing values in society. Any of the recommendations so far deal with that kind of theme?
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Edited by - Shiv on 03/21/2007 22:33:41 |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/21/2007 : 23:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
I would be interested in any Korean films that deal directly with teenage rebellion or questioning of authority/elders. Or that explicity tackle changing values in society. Any of the recommendations so far deal with that kind of theme?
I can't think of any. The closest one I can think of is Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter... and Spring, (read the plot outline). It's not really what you're after but it's such an excellent film I'd see it anyway. |
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 03/22/2007 : 10:47:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
I can't think of any. The closest one I can think of is Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter... and Spring, (read the plot outline). It's not really what you're after but it's such an excellent film I'd see it anyway.
Ta
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damalc
"last watched: Sausage Party"
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Posted - 04/19/2007 : 16:45:04
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| doesn't that picture of Cho Seung-Hui with the hammer remind you of "Oldboy?" |
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MisterBadIdea
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 04/19/2007 : 17:08:27
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I liked Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring. But I have issues with it.
They're mostly my issues with Buddhism. I dislike how the movie equates love with murder. I dislike the very idea of emptying my mind to find peace. I like what's in my head. The movie's very well-done, but I can't help but find it simple-minded and obvious.
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 04/20/2007 : 12:12:48
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I liked it a lot more when I read how the whole film was a sort of penance for the director, who'd explored all manner of cinematic excess up to that point and was trying to find some kind of balance and forgiveness.
*minor spoiler*
After all he's actually playing the monk who's dragging the stone up the mountain - and he did it for real. |
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Airbolt
"teil mann, teil maschine"
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Posted - 04/20/2007 : 22:59:53
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quote:
Originally posted by damalc
doesn't that picture of Cho Seung-Hui with the hammer remind you of "Oldboy?"
The media are in a frenzy to link the " depraved " film OLDBOY to the Virginia Tech Murders - showing the killer's pose next to the hammer pose from the film. Also put together are the gun to the head shot - compared to a still from the film.
One uninformed article suggested that OLDBOY was a typical liberal Hollywood film! Others sneered that " Quentin Tarantino liked this film ".
Now i found OLDBOY to be very strong indeed and at times it was almost sadistic ( esp the tongue cutting ) . However it was miles away from a schlock-horror sadism fest as suggested by some lazy critics. This happens after every major incident - the killers at Columbine liked Natural Born Killers ( or the Matrix ).
It is possible that the killer got some imagery from films. After all , this was a very modern massacre in which the killer sends a package to NBC prior to his mass murders ( echoes of " 15 minutes " ).
However to suggest that OLDBOY contributed to the killer's state of mind is extremely tenuous. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 10/16/2007 : 11:30:56
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OK, I finally saw The Host. All I'll say is that I was underwhelmed. Marginally better than Godzilla (and that's not saying much), I got the feeling I'd seen it all before. And I mean seen it ALL before. The monster, the movement, it's reason for existing, the loud noises when the monster jumps out from behind ya', the family in a personal battle with the beast, the useless officials in denial etc. No tension, humour or scares.
6/10, barely a passing grade, and the least entertaining Korean movie I've seen to date. I'm not trying to start an argument (I've read everyone else's comments above), but that's just my prognosis. |
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Korean films - Memories of Murder (2003) etc
