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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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 Posted - 02/27/2007 : 12:27:02
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Originally posted by Se�n
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Originally posted by Paddy C
Mena Suvari: lies about relationship experiences, then eventually reveals the truth to Lester in a cathartic moment.
I understood this the other way around; that she was lying to Lester, presumably as she thought this was what he would have wanted to hear. Did I get this wrong? 
Well, IMHO yes. I never considered your interpretation at all. 
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randall 
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 02/27/2007 : 17:59:18
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| I liked it when I saw it. But I thought it was a weak Best Picture the very night it won. |
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turrell 
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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Posted - 02/27/2007 : 18:19:13
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For me, the fact that Lester's world was filled with hateable characters seem plausible - thi smovie is a narrative told from his point of view and he is clearly feeling depressed and opressed as the movie begins - so from his perspective he is the one sane person in a world filled with crazies. I agree with Duh that it is a beatifully shot film, as much attention to small details being paid as Carolyn pays to her garden or her client's home (the slow pans, color pallettes, and the grocery bag scene immediately come to mind). While the characters may be over the top in their personality they are portrayed masterfully by a very talented cast.
But for me the dialogue is winning - I personally don't care if dialogue is believable as much as it is entertaining or thought-provoking. One of the reasons I love Whit Stillman films is that while conversations like those portrayed in his films probably never take place the sheer art and poetry is worth the price of admission. Pulp Fiction and a lot of Tarantino movies are similar - no one talks like that all the time - but I am happy to be a fly on the wall listening in. One of my favorite lines in film is when Kevin Spacey is working the drive-thru and Annette Benning comes in with Peter Gallagher, having busted them in their tryst, he says "You don't get to tell me what to do ever again." Taken alone this is pretty standard dialogue, I admit, but in context of the scene and his life up to that point and with his perfect delivery it was perfect.
When we were talking about the best movie years recently I agreed that 1999 was my favorite movie year - so many incredible films that were outside the standard fare (Matrix, Fight Club, 6th Sense, Magnolia, Being John Malkovich, and others) But American Beauty is still for me the best picture of that year. |
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Paddy C
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 02/27/2007 : 20:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by turrell
When we were talking about the best movie years recently I agreed that 1999 was my favorite movie year - so many incredible films that were outside the standard fare (Matrix, Fight Club, 6th Sense, Magnolia, Being John Malkovich, and others) But American Beauty is still for me the best picture of that year.
Funny, the other nominations for best picture that year were Cider House Rules, The Green Mile, The Insider and The Sixth Sense... I haven't seen Cider House Rules, but I'd say the winner was fair based on those five.. I did like 'The Insider' a lot as well though.
Kevin Spacey managed to beat off (ahem  ) Denzel for 'The Hurricane' and Russell Crowe for 'The Insider'... |
Edited by - Paddy C on 02/27/2007 20:42:50 |
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Montgomery 
"F**k!"
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Posted - 02/27/2007 : 22:45:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
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Originally posted by Salopian
When I watched it, I found it to be very overrated and fairly pointless.
I'm with Sal & Joe... I never enjoyed this movie. I couldn't find any sympathetic characters to like. 
True, nobody was likeable in this. But, same for Pulp Fiction and Sideways and stuff like Lock, Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels, all of which I liked. Lack of a likeable character to identify with doesn't bother me. 
You didn't like the Gimp? Come on. He's completely the protagonist in that movie.
EM :) |
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duh 
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 02/28/2007 : 03:59:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by duh
I find that the scene wherein he imagines naked Mena covered in rose petals gives me some insight into male sexuality. I see how for men, lust and love are very close to the same thing.
Wrong, they're completely different for us males.
Love - imagining naked Mena covered in rose petals. 
Lust - imagining naked Mena not covered in rose petals. 
Sean, you gave me a MUCH needed laugh for today!!!! I'm sitting here drinking whiskey straight -- no rocks, nuttin' just cuz it has been such a sucky day. And YOU have made me laugh!!!! I feel so much better now.  (I'll never be able to watch that scene again w/o thinking of your comment.) |
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duh
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 02/28/2007 : 04:03:32
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Originally posted by wildhartlivie
Mostly, I found the characters shallow and self-consumed.
By George, s/he's got it!
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Now to reveal what a schmuck I probably am: I thought Spacey was a thousand times better in (well, almost everything I've ever seen him in.. BUT) Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil (one of my more favored films), The Usual Suspects, Se7en, or K-PAX (!). He is terrific at creating surprisingly deep and interesting characters, but I thought Lester wasn't one of those.
As I saw him, Lester recognized the superficiality of his life and wanted BETTER. That scene just before he is murdered, where he gazes at the the photo of his wife and daughter, with that contented little smile on his face, tugs at my heart. |
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duh
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 02/28/2007 : 04:08:44
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Originally posted by Paddy C
Hmmm, I never thought of it that way, but you might have a point there.. I presumed she was spinning yarns to Thora Birch about all her experience (appearance), but when it came down to the moment with Kevin Spacey, she got the fear because the stories were an act (reality).. but you know, she could have been telling the truth to Thora Birch and lying to Kevin Spacey... i'm confused now
I have wondered all along, which was the lie, and which was the truth? I'm not sure that it really matters. I think what matters, as far as the storyline went, is that for the first time, Mena's character felt valued as a human being. Her smile later, while she sat alone, showed someone who felt happy inwardly, who felt cherished and precious. Lester gave her that, and from that point onward, she would hold herself (and horny boys) to higher standards. |
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rabid kazook 
"Pushing the antelope"
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Posted - 02/28/2007 : 04:43:07
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Originally posted by Whippersnapper
My point, little Kazook, is that they all aspire to be philosophical and its a load of garbage.
Plain enough for ya?
I think it's also a matter of objectivness which movies make this philosophically loaded garbage cut, and me thinks these are aren't the bad kind (Huckabees, Magnolia). Aren't Bergman movies by some also deemed to be philosophically garbage? I dont think so the are.
Maybe I don't agree with some aspects of these but I find them also very well made movies and can't stress to assail them with this hatefulness you ain.
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 02/28/2007 : 21:55:21
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quote:
Originally posted by duh
As I saw him, Lester recognized the superficiality of his life and wanted BETTER. That scene just before he is murdered, where he gazes at the the photo of his wife and daughter, with that contented little smile on his face, tugs at my heart.
K-PAX possible SPOILER:
You know, that's one of Spacey's strongest points - how he reveals tiny bits of character that way. When I posted to this thread, I'd just finished watching K-PAX on tv. There's a point, at the VERY end, when Jeff Bridges is talking to "Robert" about the disappearance of Bess, where Bridges says "you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?" With just the slightest of glimmers, Spacey's eyes crinkle at the corner and there's just a hint of that tiny smile. Those are the moments that make his films. |
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Whippersnapper.
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 03/01/2007 : 00:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by rabid kazook
quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
My point, little Kazook, is that they all aspire to be philosophical and its a load of garbage.
Plain enough for ya?
I think it's also a matter of objectivness which movies make this philosophically loaded garbage cut, and me thinks these are aren't the bad kind (Huckabees, Magnolia). Aren't Bergman movies by some also deemed to be philosophically garbage? I dont think so the are.
Maybe I don't agree with some aspects of these but I find them also very well made movies and can't stress to assail them with this hatefulness you ain.
Sorry Kazook.
You're right, I Heart Huckabees is better than anything Bergman ever made. My mistake.
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/01/2007 : 02:57:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
I can't say I remember all the details from this movie, but I recall it was packed with a kind of "philosophical" pretensiousness much lauded by Hollywood.
Magnolia was of the same ilk, although at least AB spared us the frogs.
Even worse examples were the sickening What Dreams May Come and the risible I Heart Huckabeeswhere I would happily machete anyone involved in the production.
I missed the philosophy in Beauty. I also liked Magnolia, but apparently missed the philosophy in that too. Haven't seen the other two, not my type of flicks I suspect.... |
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rabid kazook
"Pushing the antelope"
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Posted - 03/01/2007 : 10:23:47
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Originally posted by Whippersnapper
Sorry Kazook.
You're right, I Heart Huckabees is better than anything Bergman ever made. My mistake.
No need for sarcasm, you.
'Shouldn't have involved Begman in this... although I'm a member of secret Tom Cruise worshipping cult, that starts of from the belief that TC's movies are the best movies of all time.
Anyhow, did you liked anything else by P.T. Anderson? Maybe that goofy Punch-Drunk Love? |
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Paddy C
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 03/01/2007 : 11:56:55
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quote:
Originally posted by rabid kazook
Punch-Drunk Love?
I liked that one, thought it was great!
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Beanmimo 
"August review site"
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Posted - 03/01/2007 : 12:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by duh
I enjoy the Lester's character very much. I find that the scene wherein he imagines naked Mena covered in rose petals gives me some insight into male sexuality. I see how for men, lust and love are very close to the same thing.
Not neccesarily true, a man can love his wife and children and go and have a meaningless sexual encounter which means absolutely nothing to him but everything to his wife whose emotions are tied to her sexuality where his emotions are hardly on speaking terms with his sexuality.
Lester isn't really in love with her as he balks at the last second to taking Mens Suvaris character's virginity, realising the foolishness of his ways.
On another point I do not think she was lying about her virginity to Lester as she became sufficiently embarassed afterwards. |
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Rethinking "American Beauty" (1999)
