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redPen 
"Because I said so!"
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 Posted - 04/17/2007 : 07:13:55
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Hi Gang.
Just finished watching "East of Eden" this weekend. Now that I've seen all 3 of James Dean's films, here's my question:
Why is/was Dean such an icon of "cool" when all he did throughout all 3 of his films was whine and cry?
My only theory is that in "Rebel Without a Cause," he talked back to his father, and (if I remember correctly) called him "weak." This was basically unheard of in mid-'50s society, and maybe the "hoods" saw it as cool.
Any other theories out there? |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 08:16:06
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quote:
Originally posted by redPen
Hi Gang.
Just finished watching "East of Eden" this weekend. Now that I've seen all 3 of James Dean's films, here's my question:
Why is/was Dean such an icon of "cool" when all he did throughout all 3 of his films was whine and cry?
My only theory is that in "Rebel Without a Cause," he talked back to his father, and (if I remember correctly) called him "weak." This was basically unheard of in mid-'50s society, and maybe the "hoods" saw it as cool.
Any other theories out there?
Hey Red
Sorry to disagree so profoundly, but JD's talent was recognized in the US immediately it exploded onto the screen. Not just by what you're calling hoods, but simply everyone who went to the movies. And, in those days, that was nearly every American nearly every week. Many people still didn't have tv let alone vids or DVDs -- as I'm sure you know!
His effect wasn't because he'd invented an acting style, but was the first since Brando who exhibited the naturalistic technique so powerfully and embodied it in such an appealing screen presence. He arrived on the scene synchronous to the socio-cultural phenomenon of the teen-ager, as well as to a time when all kinds of drama started to deal with the post-war realities instead of several decades dominated by more fantasy, more class-bound stories. I'm not saying every film since 1939 fell into that category, but the majority did. Brando was too old to play a teen-ager and Hollywood needed a successor.
Middle America particularly hadn't had many cultural icons with whom they could identify ... not necessarily approve of, but whom they recognized immediately as one of their own. Dean appeared in those kind of films. The fact that he played the character morally pit against the norm served to tell stories reflecting the obvious transition the country was undergoing at the time - the mercurial phenomenon on which Dylan in the following decade would comment: "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr Jones?"
What Dean brought was an encapsulation of that social transition and, like all good actors, he did it viscerally. Any intellectual process took place out of sight of its audience. It's a deceptive technique since the results are perceived as 'just behaving.' Acting, at its most creative is about illusion. You begin a role having transcended all the years of study and training - and that includes literary criticism, sense memory, anatomy and its control, psychology, physical dexterity acquired from a wide range of exercises from fencing to ballet, vocal dexterity and particularly control of the breath and voice production. In other words you acquire a tool-box and when you begin a role you are able to assess which are the right tools for the job. There's a conscious selection -- for good actors.
And then there's an ability to work both on your own and with a team of actors, director, and crew in order to hone the tailoring of what you know to a bunch of someone else's words in order to create the illusion of a credible human being, who makes you believe s/he's at home in his/her own skin, at home in the constructed setting of a room with only three walls and no ceiling to accommodate lights and camera angles, at home with a set of words and actions not only which are not quite your own, but which you have to repeat many times for wide shots, medium shots, two shots, and close-ups, and finally at home in a scene that may be a million miles from one's own background or accent or philosophy.
Every generation has rebels - with and without causes. Popular culture today can capture those social changes on an almost daily basis. Films about events are in turnaround almost before the events occur.
In the 1950s there was a wider gap between what was happening in the streets and its documentation in your local cinema -- what Variety calls your "nabe." Dean had done his homework. He was almost immediately the star of his acting classes, intelligent, dedicated, with a face and physique loved by the camera. Like all enduring movie stars he appealed both to men and women. His agent chose his roles wisely. The films he starred in were all box office successes. They were bound to be considering their wider news appeal and - with two of them at least, major co-stars and solid directors.
It may have been largely movie biz hype, but everyone was talking about him and the p.r. machine made sure he was portrayed as a version of the 'bad boys' or troubled young men he played. People spoke of his great screen promise.
He rode a bike - and I don't mean made by Schwinn. Drove too fast. Went off on his own a lot. He embodied the same outsider that a new generation was beginning to feel inside, and that was how it started to define itself, and look around for points of identification.
The question you raise of 'cool' was less in the control of Dean than of the screenwriters, directors and Hollywood moguls who not only recognized the phenomenon but supplied material to portray it to a hungry public.
And then he died.
Sounds like a legend in the making to me 
Okay, I'm gonna get a cuppa Java now
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 04/17/2007 10:22:38 |
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ChocolateLady 
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 09:56:31
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| um... what Bafta said. |
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redPen
"Because I said so!"
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 11:17:59
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I don't necessarily disagree with anything that's been said thus far. My problem is not with his timing and the social climate at the time, but strictly with his stage personae. The best example I can think of is in Giant, when he decks Rock Hudson on his own porch. This would be a great opportunity to play uber-macho. Plant your feet, steel your fist and hit square in the gut, stand there lookin hard at the guy and walk away slow.
But not Jimmy D.! He's gotta "fall" across the porch like someone pushed him or tripped him, give a very weak punch, then run off! Same with kissing Liz T. That's a friggin coward, not a hood icon!  |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 12:11:47
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| I disagree. With that punch he was sending a message that acting on rage with physical violence isn't something to be proud of, and that using violence on someone else, also adversely effects you, internally and mentally. I found it magical, actually. If he had done it your way, it would have been a forgettable scene. Same with the kiss - his internal struggle of knowing right from wrong but not being able to stop yourself from doing wrong is spot on. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 14:15:01
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I haven't read the script. Have you?
It may be that the scenes were directed and performed as written. It may not. Whatever ... I just cannot see how the behaviour of any one character [NOT ACTOR] in a scene that is [or should be] only onscreen because it is contributing something to the story in terms of relationships, plot development, whatever ... can be extrapolated to the public perception of how supposedly cool an actor may or not be either at the time or decades later.
In fact, RP, the more I think about your original comment the less I understand what exactly it is you're trying to say!
Cool guys aren't always the ones who deck others. Or assume they can [almost as a right] kiss women. Sometimes - as CL has indicated - the very restraint shown defines cool.
Dean is brilliant at the ambiguity of behaviour. Keanu, otho, conveys the over-riding impression that his inner life has been smothered in decades of marshmallow. Just for a comparison.
So, you cool dude ... I gotta go the movies soon; you can duke it out with CL, or whomever 
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turrell
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 18:41:07
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I'll say this the guy made 3 movies total in 2 years and died in the middle of that span, which is going out just as he was exploding on the scene.
As for his acting - you have to consider Bafta's point and not view his acting in a vacuum. Look at other actors during that time and compare the two styles - Dean was revolutionary.
The top 5 grossing films in both 1955 and 1956 were as follows:
1955:
1 Lady and the Tramp (animated film)
2 Cinerama Holiday (documentary)
3 Mister Roberts (featuring Jack Lemon and Henry Fonda)
4 Battle Cry (a mostly forgotten war movie)
5 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
1956:
1 Guys and Dolls (cheesy musical)
2 The King and I (less cheesy musical)
3 Trapeze (a circus movie)
4 High Society (Bing Crosby, Sinatra, Grace Kelly comedy)
5 I'll Cry Tomorrow (susan Hayward)
If you watch any of these and countless other less worthy films from the same year and then you watch James Dean, he is much more similar to good modern actors than those of his day. Streetcar which launched Brando's career came out just a few years before and there were very few people acting in the natural style. Its interesting to see who was winning Oscars at this time, it wasn't these performances that stand out, but the styles of the day (Humphrey Bogart, Gary Cooper, William Holden, Ernest Borgnine, Yul Brynner). With the exception of Brando in On the Waterfront, the accepted style of the day was also still embraced by the award communities. That Dean embraced this new style was not only cool, but daring. Those other actors winning awards in the 50's were good actors, but the style was certainly much more guarded and less revealing of the human condition and for that pioneers such as Brando and Dean are and should be held up as icons. |
Edited by - turrell on 04/17/2007 21:35:22 |
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Rovark
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 19:00:56
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Ive always thought he was just a product of his time, a different kind of anti-hero.
The whiney, it's so unfair, nobody gives me the respect I deserve as of right without doing anything to deserve it, Waaaahhhhhh, kind of anti-hero.
Perhaps we needed him to get to Nicholson, Hoffman, Pacino, Day-Lewis, Spacey etc etc, but I gotta say, Dean just never did it for me.
I do wonder what he could have gone on to do, if he'd had longer. But that's one we'll never know.  |
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MisterBadIdea 
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 04/17/2007 : 21:20:03
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I have no idea why you expected James Dean to be John Wayne, but Dean was a hero because he practically invented the disaffected teenager. He's Catcher in the Rye for the movies. Perhaps you don't like Catcher in the Rye. There's plenty of room for not watching Catcher in the Rye. But criticizing James Dean for not being super-macho is like criticizing Spider-Man for not being Superman.
Furthermore, it's pretty clear that Dean's character in Giant was not meant to be a hero. He's supposed to be a loser. He's a contrast to the occasionally wrongheaded but mostly upstanding Rock Hudson character. |
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lemmycaution
"Long mired in film"
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 04/18/2007 : 02:18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by lemmycaution
Of many iconic images, perhaps the most compelling.
That image sums him up nicely. Bent shoulders, smoking, trudging through the water in the gutter in the rain, but handling it.
He's not "uber-hero cool", but "loser-cool", i.e., cool enough to be able to handle being a nobody. But more to the point, perhaps many young'uns back in those days could relate to him in a way that they'd never be able to relate to "bigger than you are" actors like John Wayne or Bogey. |
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duh 
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 04/18/2007 : 11:59:47
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quote:
Originally posted by redPen
Hi Gang.
Just finished watching "East of Eden" this weekend. Now that I've seen all 3 of James Dean's films, here's my question:
Why is/was Dean such an icon of "cool" when all he did throughout all 3 of his films was whine and cry?
My only theory is that in "Rebel Without a Cause," he talked back to his father, and (if I remember correctly) called him "weak." This was basically unheard of in mid-'50s society, and maybe the "hoods" saw it as cool.
Any other theories out there?
I never 'got' James Dean either. To me he seemed narcissistic and manipulative.
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redPen
"Because I said so!"
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Posted - 04/19/2007 : 05:47:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rovark
Ive always thought he was just a product of his time, a different kind of anti-hero.
The whiney, it's so unfair, nobody gives me the respect I deserve as of right without doing anything to deserve it, Waaaahhhhhh, kind of anti-hero.
Perhaps we needed him to get to Nicholson, Hoffman, Pacino, Day-Lewis, Spacey etc etc, but I gotta say, Dean just never did it for me.
I do wonder what he could have gone on to do, if he'd had longer. But that's one we'll never know.
Agreed, Rovark. I saw much potential in him, just never got the icon tag. I understand he played an apostle in a live TV drama that has never been released on any video format. That would be something to see!
And thanks for daring to be different, duh. I was simply asking for opinions, but for a sec there, I thought the torch-carryin' villagers were gonna storm my castle!
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Beanmimo 
"August review site"
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Posted - 04/19/2007 : 14:11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by redPen
quote:
Originally posted by Rovark
Ive always thought he was just a product of his time, a different kind of anti-hero.
The whiney, it's so unfair, nobody gives me the respect I deserve as of right without doing anything to deserve it, Waaaahhhhhh, kind of anti-hero.
Perhaps we needed him to get to Nicholson, Hoffman, Pacino, Day-Lewis, Spacey etc etc, but I gotta say, Dean just never did it for me.
I do wonder what he could have gone on to do, if he'd had longer. But that's one we'll never know.
Agreed, Rovark. I saw much potential in him, just never got the icon tag. I understand he played an apostle in a live TV drama that has never been released on any video format. That would be something to see!
And thanks for daring to be different, duh. I was simply asking for opinions, but for a sec there, I thought the torch-carryin' villagers were gonna storm my castle!
So i suppose you thnk Marilyn Monroe was just a pent up bottle blond? |
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Rovark
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"
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Posted - 04/19/2007 : 18:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
So i suppose you thnk Marilyn Monroe was just a pent up bottle blond?
What can I say, I've got the CD of Monroe's Essential Recordings, "I Wanna Be Loved By You", "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend", "My Heart Belongs To Daddy" etc.  |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 04/19/2007 : 18:39:16
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Is that picture when you were an extra in "Life On Mars" Rovy?
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James Dean
