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MisterBadIdea 
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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 Posted - 11/19/2007 : 21:37:14
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At its best it's a happy amalgam of form and content
Indeed, but this is surely not it. The CGI actors are creepy and wrong-looking -- that Uncanny Valley has not yet been crossed. The warmth of humanity has been sucked off the screen. 300, with its archetypical characters, could have maybe pulled it off, but this is not the right movie for CGI's anaesthetic cleanliness. This is not a simplistic hero story, it wants to be a gritty revisionist take, and I simply don't see how that can be accomplished with PlayStation graphics.
I honestly think they could accomplish every important shot with green screen -- look at Sin City or Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. Sure, they would probably have to resort to CGI figures for the more difficult scenes, just like they do with the Spider-Man movies. But I saw no reason to entirely remove the live-action. |
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benj clews 
"...."
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Posted - 11/19/2007 : 22:43:20
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Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
I honestly think they could accomplish every important shot with green screen -- look at Sin City or Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. Sure, they would probably have to resort to CGI figures for the more difficult scenes, just like they do with the Spider-Man movies. But I saw no reason to entirely remove the live-action.
The first Matrix film is testament to just how much can be achieved with green screen. Shame they threw it all out the window for the sequels  |
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 11/22/2007 : 12:42:59
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Originally posted by BaftaBabe
It calls Grendel and his mommy demons, when they're nothing to do with the devil.
They're definitely supposed to be demons, or close enough. Grendel (presumably through his mother) is descended from Cain. So any implicit association with the devil is pretty much fine. |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 11/22/2007 : 13:07:57
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Originally posted by Salopian
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Originally posted by BaftaBabe
It calls Grendel and his mommy demons, when they're nothing to do with the devil.
They're definitely supposed to be demons, or close enough. Grendel (presumably through his mother) is descended from Cain. So any implicit association with the devil is pretty much fine.
Not in the original Edda it's not. As I keep saying, this film reflects the Christian spin on the original tale. I think Snorrason refers to a word for monster, as opposed to demon. Cain doesn't get a look-in. But it's all academic.
The story in this film is, imho, is hardly on the same plane as the cgi. I just regret that a generation which has never been exposed to Beowulf will come away thinking this is the story.
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 11/22/2007 : 13:19:00
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Beowulf
It has its faults, but is much better than I had anticipated. This is partly because the trailer made it seem so poor - Grendel was completely absent and I had no idea who Jolie was supposed to be.
I didn't actually mind where it diverges from the story. The main instances (Grendel's mother's form, Grendel's father, the dragon's parents) are quite extreme differences, but while I would prefer faithfulness to the poem, they probably are improvements. The dragon, in particular, is like an addendum in the poem, and so the film ties it all in together. I didn't expect it to include the dragon at all. (It's meant to be fifty years later, though, so the queen and the slave boy, especially, have aged very well!)
The C.G.I. looked quite plasticky at times, especially towards the beginning, but I wasn't too bothered about it either way. It can be considered to reflect the explicitly fictionalised versions of the characters, some of whom may have had some origin in reality. And the good-looking (there is some facial resemblance, just less than with the others) and Tom of Finland version of Winstone is definitely preferable to the potato-shaped real one.
Like B.B. says, Winstone's repeated talk of the "monstah" and similar is quite distracting (though kind of hilarious). Some of the characters have vaguely Scandinavianised accents and this would have been better uniformly. I really enjoyed Grendel and to some degree his mother speaking Old English - I did not expect this in the film at all. It is a bit of a shame that it is largely consigned to the evil characters, but much better than nothing, and the film-makers obviously enjoyed slipping swive ("fuck") in several times elsewhere.
I don't think there is misogyny in Grendel's mother being an evil force, but the golden Barbie version of her body does say a lot - the breasts have the nipples absent and there are no messy genitals, signifying that her body is for male pleasure rather than reproduction.
Grendel changes size apparently randomly. This doesn't serve any sensible purpose and so he should just have been kept a bit larger than a man.
The characters rather stupidly think that Grendel's arm being off means that he is dead. (I don't remember that from the poem, but you never know.) Since that would not even be a reasonable assumption with a person, it's bizarre that they imagine a demon to be so feeble (and then that they are right!).
On the message of the poem, there is debate over whether the final word, lofgeornost ("love-yearn-most", the keenest for fame) is validating or critical of Beowulf. The film is not unfair to the poem in this regard.
I would have liked to have been able to see it in 3D, but as I mentioned, I unfortunately cannot. Any views on the difference from people who have seen it that way?
So, certainly not perfect, but 4/5 from me. |
Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 11/22/2007 13:55:19 |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 11/22/2007 : 13:26:30
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Originally posted by BaftaBabe
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Originally posted by Salopian
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Originally posted by BaftaBabe
It calls Grendel and his mommy demons, when they're nothing to do with the devil.
They're definitely supposed to be demons, or close enough. Grendel (presumably through his mother) is descended from Cain. So any implicit association with the devil is pretty much fine.
Not in the original Edda it's not. As I keep saying, this film reflects the Christian spin on the original tale. I think Snorrason refers to a word for monster, as opposed to demon. Cain doesn't get a look-in. But it's all academic.
In the poem, Grendel absolutely is a descendant of Cain. Sure, this doesn't make him by definition demonlike (my "definitely" before was a bit extreme), but it's definitely a valid interpretation. |
Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 11/22/2007 13:27:54 |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 11/22/2007 : 13:49:52
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Originally posted by 8enj clews
The first Matrix film is testament to just how much can be achieved with green screen. Shame they threw it all out the window for the sequels
Saw them for the first time about a week ago. They were all right - just a shame that not a lot happens. |
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Rovark
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"
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Posted - 11/27/2007 : 21:24:41
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Pretty much with Salopian on this one.
There are some glaring divergencies fron the poem but this didn't matter too much to me. The poem was originally in the heroic oral tradition, sung in the mead halls and would have existed in many versions from the 8th century onwards, possibly even earlier. Beowulf's liege lord, a genuine historic figure, was killed around 520. We only have a single written source for this epic which was written down around the 10th/11th century. It's therefore not a definitive text. We can allow some artistic licence to the film makers imho
Having just seen Beowulf at the London IMAX, I would say the whole 3D IMAX experience lifted it from a 3/5 to 4/5 film. Even if you can't get to a IMAX screen, do try to see it in the 3D version
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Beowulf 3D (London IMAX)
