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randall 
"I like to watch."
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 Posted - 04/21/2008 : 13:19:10
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I searched through the last year for another thread on this flick [I so hate it when a dupe thread gets started and the conversation thus diverges], so if I missed it somehow, please send me back.
I thought this was Sean Penn's finest hour as a director; this picture would look good on any director's resume. The evocation of nature, of the rarefied notion of nature existing inside the protagonist's mind, of the people who affect him, of the people who try to love him, and of his final wrenching epiphany, is first class all the way. When it first started rolling, I thought the 2:30 running time was an indulgence. Wrong: Penn doesn't ask you to cut him any slack in any area. You don't fully understand what motivates the main character -- nobody really did except the adventurer himself -- but you get plenty of clues.
What a superb job. And what are essentially cameos by Vince Vaughn, Catherine Keener, and especially Hal Holbrook, are the icing on the cake. See it. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 13:33:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Randall
The following was my take for the M* -- not a review but a comment piece.
Missing the real journey
(Monday 05 November 2007)
BETH PORTER on FILM
"BECAUSE it's there," is the apocryphal mountain-climber's proverbial reply.
Our species culturally evolved through hundreds of millennia of a wandering lifestyle, so it's not surprising that a restless townie will find irresistible the beckoning digit of adventure into a disturbing and unknown wilderness.
Are we called by some genetic destiny, seeking a return to our hunter-gatherer roots? Is it a potent metaphor for a more spiritual journey to control our inner "wild?"
Such questions are implicit in Into the Wild, Sean Penn's assured film adaptation of Chris McCandless's venture into the land of his wildest dreams, never to return.
To the despair of his parents, he donated his inheritance to charity, renamed himself Alex Supertramp and set out for some undefined alternative. The film echoes Simon of the Desert, Bunuel's potent 1965 classic, as well as the more mixed motives of Gerald Kingsland and Lucy Irvine recorded in Nick Roeg's Castaway.
Bringing McCandless's true story to the screen consumed Penn for a decade, forging his own journey through the Hollywood jungle, hacking through the resistance of moguls.
Whether or not you buy Penn's version of events based on Jon Krakauer's best-seller, the film pulls you in with age-old quintessential questions of test or discovery.
Does my lifestyle define who I am, where might I find another and will I find myself there, too?
But are those queries really the point? They certainly pin us to the story, but has something been left out?
Though he succumbed to the expectations of a middle-class childhood, this university graduate, beginning to carve out his place, admitted to friends, family and diary his unease with "the road more travelled."
It's in retrospect, however, that the iconic status of a young man's idyll is truly tested because, regarded objectively, Supertramp embarked virtually unprepared on his unpretentious quest for self. Hero or fool?
Suppose, instead of Alaska, his goal was to reach the moon and "just live, man." Somehow, he gets there, but he's ignorant of assuring basic food, adequate shelter and protection against disease. Let's say that he even makes it through a week or so before he dies, never really knowing who he was.
Would such a foolhardy venture become the symbol of the power of independence that McCandless subsequently inspired? We know now, because we are assured by experts in Alaskan wilderness survival, that Supertramp had everything that he required to stay alive, including the means of retreat back to civilisation.
But there's something else which doesn't get much attention either in Penn's heartfelt depiction or in countless adulatory articles that bestow such high cultural status on a man who ultimately failed where so many have succeeded.
I mean what McCandless was running away from, which was surely as important as where he was headed. There are more than hints that this young man, who'd majored in history and anthropology, was trying to look past the capitalist ethos that defined the lives of everyone around him.
His journey was, at least in part, to forge an identity untainted by social structures that, he felt, exploited the human spirit. It's only in that context that his choices make any moral sense. Some say that he was emotionally disturbed and we'll never really know.
Of course, money-driven Hollywood is less likely to green-light a film celebrating a unique and apolitical rejection of capitalism.
But if only the film had put his journey firmly in its socio-political context, we'd get closer to his torment than a sentimental elevation of Alex into some minor deity.
More importantly, perhaps we'd get closer to the dissatisfactions with our own lives.
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 04/21/2008 13:33:52 |
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 17:18:13
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Big spoiler below (if one can have a spoiler for a true story, which is debatable).
I cannot find a thread either (other than B.B.'s M* thread), although I thought I commented on it at the time - perhaps it was in another thread.
Yep, I agree with Randall on all points.
As B.B. has alluded, some people, Alaskans especially, deem McCandless's starvation to amount to suicide, as if he'd chosen to take a map he could easily have found help a few miles away. However, that does not detract from my view of the film or, indeed, him. |
Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 04/22/2008 15:20:37 |
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MisterBadIdea 
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 18:34:36
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Really liked this one. If there is one significant criticism I have, it is the same as BB's: What exactly was McCandless (not Supertramp, that's a stupid name) running from? He comes across as a bit of a cipher.
And yet, at the same time, I feel like letting us into his head would have been damaging to the film and its complexity. I'm sure it could be handled with sensitivity, as Penn handled the rest of the film, but what I really enjoy about this film is how it clearly likes the kid but refuses to glorify him (it doesn't whitewash the pain he caused his family, for example). In a way, I imagine that a more internal view of this kid's mindspace would have either made him too sympathetic (if it made us too understanding of his worldview) or too unsympathetic (if it presented his viewpoint as just more white-boy whining). As it is, he comes across as a kid with a lot of ideas but not the wisdom to sift through them properly. Judging from the film, I'd say that McCandless was a young man who had an amazing adventure and drew all the wrong conclusions from it -- why would you meet that many cool and friendly people and then decide to live out alone in the wilderness? |
Edited by - MisterBadIdea on 04/21/2008 18:36:21 |
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silly 
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 18:44:46
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I liked this movie, a lot, and found it touching.
As someone who has suffered from depression off and on over the years, it was easy to relate to someone who wanted to get away from the past. Also when one of the hippie characters (whose son had similarly run off) said "you look like someone that was loved," and he had no response.
Love this quote (may not be entirely accurate):
Chris: Some people feel like they don't deserve love. They walk away quietly into empty spaces, trying to close the gaps of the past.
It was also easy to get one of my recent reviews passed, "McCandless never learned fishing."
It was powerful, for all the reason's y'all have said, and especially because they didn't analyze him too much, just presented him and let us relate to him in our own way. |
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GHcool 
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 19:33:20
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SPOILER ALERT
I liked the movie mostly because of its performances, specifically the Emile Hirsch's and Hal Halbrook's. I thought Halbrook should have won the Oscar.
As for the controversy surrounding what the meaning of the film and of McCandless's death was, I'm going to go with the Alaskan rangers on this one and say that McCandless was arrogant and suicidal. His mom and dad didn't seem like the best parents in the world, but I have more sympathy for them and their loss than I do for McCandless himself. Thousands of young American adults grew up under worse circumstances than McCandless, but most of them don't die for a half-baked political statement that nobody is listening to anyway.
The thing that irritated me about this movie is how ambiguously it treats its main character. Throughout most of the film, it portrays McCandless as an almost Jesus-like figure. Indeed, during his death scene, the editor inter-cutsimages of McCandless suffering from malnutrition with angelic camera movements of the sky/clouds as if McCandless is ascending to Heaven. On the other hand, in his final moments, McCandless seems to admit to himself (and the world) that he may have made a terrible mistake and most of the colorful characters he meets on his journey seem to agree that his extremism will get him in terrible trouble.
I much preferred Werner Herzog's documentary Grizzley Man which is about a similar true story of a man who that died while camping in Alaska. Herzog is less ambiguous on the point that his subject's life and death is a warning against defying common sense for the sake of idealism and is a meditation on the human condition and its place within nature. Penn's film felt hero worship for a man who essentially tied himself to a railroad track and expected the train to go around him. |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 19:42:10
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Big spoiler repeated below.
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
As for the controversy surrounding what the meaning of the film and of McCandless's death was, I'm going to go with the Alaskan rangers on this one and say that McCandless was arrogant and suicidal. His mom and dad didn't seem like the best parents in the world, but I have more sympathy for them and their loss than I do for McCandless himself.
Yup, it all hinges on one's view of suicide. I think that people have the right to commit suicide. Should duty to their parents/other loved ones disallow it ethically? It's the strongest argument against killing oneself, but I'm not sure that one should stay alive for other people, whoever they are*. I feel he is (I'm talking about the film, as I don't know for sure how reality varied, although I think it was close in this regard) crueller to his sister in staying out of touch while alive. He could easily send her messages without giving away his location.
*Actually, I don't include in this minor children (duty towards whom does preclude ethical suicide) and perhaps not partners and adult children either (to whom one has made a commitment by creating a life with them/creating their life). |
Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 04/22/2008 15:21:26 |
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damalc
"last watched: Sausage Party"
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 20:05:00
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one of the things i really liked about this film was how my attitude of the character changed as the film progressed.
for about 2/3 of the movie, i thought, "how cool. this dude just takes of on an adventure and does it his way."
later i thought, "how selfish to take his adventure without regard for his family, or any of the people he met along the way who cared about him."
on comparisons to "Grizzly Man," one of the interviewees' quotes about Treadwell applies to Supertramp too: "he got what he was asking for." |
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MisterBadIdea
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 04/22/2008 : 00:26:20
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| I actually don't think Herzog treats Timothy Treadwell any less sympathetically than Penn treats McCandless. Herzog considers Treadwell's philosophies and respectfully disagrees. If McCandless comes off a great deal more likable, it's because he's portrayed by Emile Hirsch whereas Treadwell is portrayed by a gibbering jackass (seriously, where'd they find that guy?). |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 04/22/2008 : 04:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
If McCandless comes off a great deal more likable, it's because he's portrayed by Emile Hirsch whereas Treadwell is portrayed by a gibbering jackass (seriously, where'd they find that guy?).
Grizzly Man was a documentary. The Treadwell shown in that film was the real man. Into the Wild was the dramatization of a similar true story, but with actors playing the real people involved. I admit that McCandless is a much more intelligent, much more appealing personality than Treadwell was, but that doesn't mean they both weren't jackasses. |
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MisterBadIdea
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 04/22/2008 : 04:51:14
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
Grizzly Man was a documentary. The Treadwell shown in that film was the real man.
That's the joke. |
Edited by - MisterBadIdea on 04/22/2008 04:51:27 |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 04/22/2008 : 19:06:03
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
Grizzly Man was a documentary. The Treadwell shown in that film was the real man.
That's the joke.
Oh, sorry. I guess the humor didn't translate well in written form.  |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 04/24/2008 : 23:12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
If McCandless comes off a great deal more likable, it's because he's portrayed by Emile Hirsch whereas Treadwell is portrayed by a gibbering jackass (seriously, where'd they find that guy?).
Grizzly Man was a documentary. The Treadwell shown in that film was the real man. Into the Wild was the dramatization of a similar true story, but with actors playing the real people involved. I admit that McCandless is a much more intelligent, much more appealing personality than Treadwell was, but that doesn't mean they both weren't jackasses.
BTW, a producer on GRIZZLY MAN was also realizing a docu on author Harlan Ellison, which is well worth seeing. |
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Yukon
"Co-editor of FWFR book"
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Posted - 04/27/2008 : 19:42:22
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
SPOILER ALERT
As for the controversy surrounding what the meaning of the film and of McCandless's death was, I'm going to go with the Alaskan rangers on this one and say that McCandless was arrogant and suicidal.
I don't think it's suicide at all. Never ever considered that thought. I think Chris was a person who underestimated what it is like to live in Alaska.
I speak from experience as a person who is from the big city (Toronto) and has lived in the North (Yukon). Life in the north is much different.
If you slip and break a leg while on a hike just outside of Toronto, wait a few minutes for someone to come around the corner or whip out your cell phone. Do it in the Yukon and you might be waiting for days for somebody to come around. (So make sure you tell a friend that if I'm not home by a certain time, please call the police and let them know where I was hiking).
You can get attacked by a bear -- so always carry bear spray when in the bush. (My friend was camping at an isolated campsite along the Yukon River. The next day, he continued on his canoe trip and later that night another camper was mauled to death by a bear at that exact spot. Easily could have been my friend if he said "I like it here, I'll stay one more day.")
Don't take an unrealible pickup truck deep into the bush. If it doesn't start or breaks down. You're screwed.
Always pack a sleeping bag and candles (for heat) in you trunk in winter time. If you slide off the road and get stuck and its -40 out, you need to stay warm.
And unfortunately for Chris, not all plants are edible.
I think Chris was one of those people who didn't realize how tough it is to live off the land and how isolated the north is. If you get into trouble, you are on your own. I think he felt safe with a fishing rod, hunting rifle and a bag of rice.
At one point when he couldn't cross the river to escape, I thought "just jump in and cross the river 500 yards downstream." Then I remembered virtually all lakes and rivers up North are glacier feed. The water is so cold, even in July, that hypothermia is always a risk. I lived in the Yukon for three years and I swam in a lake only once. I used to paddle on the Yukon River in May and I knew if my canoe tipped, I had about one minute to get to shore before my arms went numb.
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thefoxboy
"Four your eyes only."
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Posted - 04/27/2008 : 23:48:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Yukon
I think Chris was one of those people who didn't realize how tough it is to live off the land and how isolated the north is. If you get into trouble, you are on your own. I think he felt safe with a fishing rod, hunting rifle and a bag of rice.
He really was one of these then. |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 04/29/2008 : 06:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Yukon
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
SPOILER ALERT
As for the controversy surrounding what the meaning of the film and of McCandless's death was, I'm going to go with the Alaskan rangers on this one and say that McCandless was arrogant and suicidal.
I don't think it's suicide at all. Never ever considered that thought. I think Chris was a person who underestimated what it is like to live in Alaska.
Most mentally healthy people who go camping in Alaska take basic safety precautions and follow the relevant state laws. Either McCandless was too stupid or too arrogant to do that, or maybe he just didn't care if he lived or died. Saying that he underestimated how dangerous life in the wild would be is like saying that Richard Pryor underestimated how dangerous freebasing cocaine would be. |
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Into The Wild
