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Gentleman Ghost 
"Brevity: soul of wit."

Posted - 03/10/2009 :  20:03:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"This 20th century slang phrase is irrelevant to the film, since Hudson is engaged in a hetero relationship. So you are applying a modern phrase to a character in early 19th century Ireland, before the footwear in the phrase was invented. You are mis-applying the actor's homosexuality to the character. And none of it actually deals with the film. I am sure you can come up with a much more appropriate review. Could you please resubmit one. Thank you."

I'm not one to complain about rejected reviews, so I won't.

But can I just point out that "Factually Inaccurate" would have sufficed?


Edited by - Gentleman Ghost on 03/10/2009 20:04:15

MguyXXV 
"X marks the spot"

Posted - 03/10/2009 :  22:11:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HA: PROOF POSITIVE -- I TOLD YOU GUYS SALOPIAN WAS A MERP!!!
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  01:05:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX

HA: PROOF POSITIVE -- I TOLD YOU GUYS SALOPIAN WAS A MERP!!!

As if I'd say "Thank you" in that context! It makes no sense!
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MguyXXV 
"X marks the spot"

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  03:13:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
(Damn! Thought I caught him. )

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RockGolf 
"1500+ reviews. 1 joke."

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  13:26:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I've grokked this out! I've sent Gentleman Ghost a PM with what I think is both the movie and his review.

I'm posting the rejection explanation on the Ken-jennings.com board to see if anyone else can come up with them.

ETA: Yup, took about ten minutes for someone else to also figure it out.

Edited by - RockGolf on 03/11/2009 15:31:03
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  15:04:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You already posted your guess here too, didn't you? "Lightfoot in his loafers." I don't think the problem is the phrase (although anyone who would use it in or out of a review would have to be rather lame), but if the character isn't gay then it obviously makes no sense. The MERP should just have said that.

Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 03/11/2009 15:07:56
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RockGolf 
"1500+ reviews. 1 joke."

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  15:34:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Salopian: Yes, I had posted it, but thought it might be fun for others to try to figure out too. And I agree, it was correctly rejected.

What I liked was that there was just enough info to determine the film and the review, although neither are mentioned in the rejection.

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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  16:00:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ro�k G01f

Salopian: Yes, I had posted it, but thought it might be fun for others to try to figure out too.

As the phrase is offensive, it's not something I found to be a fun basis for a game.
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Gentleman Ghost 
"Brevity: soul of wit."

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  19:00:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian

quote:
Originally posted by Ro�k G01f

Salopian: Yes, I had posted it, but thought it might be fun for others to try to figure out too.

As the phrase is offensive, it's not something I found to be a fun basis for a game.



I confess, I'm lame. Sorry to have offended you.
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MguyXXV 
"X marks the spot"

Posted - 03/11/2009 :  21:00:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian

(although anyone who would use it in or out of a review would have to be rather lame)
FREEZE!

O.K., this is the sort of stuff that causes problems. That is an ad hominem argumentative fallacy, and it is not polite (and even worse, it's effectively speaking an insult about a person who is right here in the room as if he isn't).

Like an unexpected third-party stepping on a game of jacks being played by several innocents, you abruptly curtailed Ro�kie's bit at a harmless trivia challenge, and then you issued an unfounded insult (and don't tell me that the term "lightfoot" is so intrinsically offensive that you just had to do something; there is a plethora of gay jokes and puns on this site, and there are even a few "N" word references, but everyone accepts this as good-natured wordsmanship in context).

Nobody was trying to be offensive! The game curtailing was unsporting, and the insult was unnecessary and unkind. I would ask you to apologize, but since the Gentleman is a Ghost, he appears to be dead and probably cannot hear you. (Damn, Sal: you're insulting dead people too! That's just mean!)




(Notice the absence of invective here: there are ways to express disapprobation without callin' motherfuckers "assholes," ya know.)
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  01:54:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX

Ro�kie's bit at a harmless trivia challenge

I don't agree at all that the propogation of offensive phrases is harmless. I think it is quite the reverse.
quote:
don't tell me that the term "lightfoot" is so intrinsically offensive that you just had to do something

It's "light in one's loafers" that is the intrinsically offensive phrase. Had to? Depends how one defines it. I felt like I wanted to and that it was valid, and I still feel just the same.
quote:
there is a plethora of gay jokes and puns on this site, and there are even a few "N" word references, but everyone accepts this as good-natured wordsmanship in context.

"Everyone" certainly does not accept that. There are many deeply homophobic terms all over this site and I have said so several times before. I only don't complain about them more because people moan whenever anyone points out that humour is not ethereally distinct from the rest of our humanity.

The few n-word (I'm surprised that you put it so coyly when citing it but I'll follow suit, though I won't on the capitalisation) references are very different unless I have missed some. They are ones that ridicule or otherwise discuss racism. The hundreds (very possibly thousands) of homophobic 'jokes' on here are nothing like that: they are just demeaning in their very nature. There may be some 'jokes' against black people but none spring to mind and so I cannot believe there are as many, and I wouldn't approve of them either. There are more reviews about Jews and Muslims than black people, but again only a low proportion are as offensive (although quite a few may be rather cliched which in itself is disempowering). It's not just homophobia that is widespread, though. There are lots of sexist references: you'd have to ask a woman to judge how bad they are en masse. And some of the worst ones are against disabled people, especially those with learning disabilities. Another issue is that you can decide if you are offended by the n-word in a non-commentating context, or indeed if you want to use it yourself (although I'd be very surprised). But I cannot tell you not to be offended by it (and imagine if any white person did!) and you'd sure as fuck be pretty fucked off if I used it myself in that way. And it wouldn't be much better if I used some term that is less commonly cited as being extremely offensive. I can use some terms that I would not mind a gay person using, but that doesn't make it O.K. for straight people to use the same terms or for others to be used at all. (Certain straight people face to face whom I know well might be an exception, but maybe not even then.) That's just the way it is.
quote:
Nobody was trying to be offensive!

So what? It's the casual use of that kind of phrase as if it is not intrinsically offensive that is the problem. As I have said when this has come up before, meaning is not transmitted by magic. Other than some changing very slowly over time, words' meanings are attached to them wherever they go.
quote:
The game curtailing was unsporting, and the insult was unnecessary and unkind.

So when people recently objected to golliwogs being on sale in a shop here, was that unsporting, unnecessary and unkind? Think of all the fun children could have had playing with the woolly hair and marvelling at their goggly eyes.
quote:
I would ask you to apologize

Ask away.
quote:
Notice the absence of invective here: there are ways to express disapprobation without callin' motherfuckers "assholes," ya know.)

Precisely. I was extremely moderate relative to my feelings on the matter. I could have said "This is fucking outrageous in this day and age", since it was, but I didn't. One can argue that a kowtowing approach is necessary and/or preferable in the early stages of fighting for equality on some front, but even if that is the case it does not remain that way for ever. Ultimately, people being wronged can feel however fucked off they do.

Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 03/12/2009 02:15:45
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  02:05:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gentleman Ghost

Sorry to have offended you.

Thank you. However, it's not about my being offended. It's about its being offensive whether I had read it or not.
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  02:59:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Offense is self-inflicted. When someone is stating their opinion they are stating a fact; that that is their opinion (however wrong they may be). There is nothing inherently offensive about any fact. Therefore 'offense taken' at someone's opinion is always self-inflicted.

Also, no language is inherently offensive or it would offend everyone. So if someone is offended by language the offense is self-inflicted.
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MguyXXV 
"X marks the spot"

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  03:16:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian

quote:
Originally posted by MguyX

Ro�kie's bit at a harmless trivia challenge

I don't agree at all that the propogation of offensive phrases is harmless. I think it is quite the reverse.
quote:
don't tell me that the term "lightfoot" is so intrinsically offensive that you just had to do something

It's "light in one's loafers" that is the intrinsically offensive phrase. Had to? Depends how one defines it. I felt like I wanted to and that it was valid, and I still feel just the same.
quote:
there is a plethora of gay jokes and puns on this site, and there are even a few "N" word references, but everyone accepts this as good-natured wordsmanship in context.

"Everyone" certainly does not accept that. There are many deeply homophobic terms all over this site and I have said so several times before. I only don't complain about them more because people moan whenever anyone points out that humour is not ethereally distinct from the rest of our humanity.

The few n-word (I'm surprised that you put it so coyly when citing it but I'll follow suit, though I won't on the capitalisation) references are very different unless I have missed some. They are ones that ridicule or otherwise discuss racism. The hundreds (very possibly thousands) of homophobic 'jokes' on here are nothing like that: they are just demeaning in their very nature. There may be some 'jokes' against black people but none spring to mind and so I cannot believe there are as many, and I wouldn't approve of them either. There are more reviews about Jews and Muslims than black people, but again only a low proportion are as offensive (although quite a few may be rather cliched which in itself is disempowering). It's not just homophobia that is widespread, though. There are lots of sexist references: you'd have to ask a woman to judge how bad they are en masse. And some of the worst ones are against disabled people, especially those with learning disabilities. Another issue is that you can decide if you are offended by the n-word in a non-commentating context, or indeed if you want to use it yourself (although I'd be very surprised). But I cannot tell you not to be offended by it (and imagine if any white person did!) and you'd sure as fuck be pretty fucked off if I used it myself in that way. And it wouldn't be much better if I used some term that is less commonly cited as being extremely offensive. I can use some terms that I would not mind a gay person using, but that doesn't make it O.K. for straight people to use the same terms or for others to be used at all. (Certain straight people face to face whom I know well might be an exception, but maybe not even then.) That's just the way it is.
quote:
Nobody was trying to be offensive!

So what? It's the casual use of that kind of phrase as if it is not intrinsically offensive that is the problem. As I have said when this has come up before, meaning is not transmitted by magic. Other than some changing very slowly over time, words' meanings are attached to them wherever they go.
quote:
The game curtailing was unsporting, and the insult was unnecessary and unkind.

So when people recently objected to golliwogs being on sale in a shop here, was that unsporting, unnecessary and unkind? Think of all the fun children could have had playing with the woolly hair and marvelling at their goggly eyes.
quote:
I would ask you to apologize

Ask away.
quote:
Notice the absence of invective here: there are ways to express disapprobation without callin' motherfuckers "assholes," ya know.)

Precisely. I was extremely moderate relative to my feelings on the matter. I could have said "This is fucking outrageous in this day and age", since it was, but I didn't. One can argue that a kowtowing approach is necessary and/or preferable in the early stages of fighting for equality on some front, but even if that is the case it does not remain that way for ever. Ultimately, people being wronged can feel however fucked off they do.

Fuck you. Asshole.
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thefoxboy 
"Four your eyes only."

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  03:17:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
I can use some terms that I would not mind a gay person using, but that doesn't make it O.K. for straight people to use the same terms or for others to be used at all. (Certain straight people face to face whom I know well might be an exception, but maybe not even then.) That's just the way it is.



I asked you this last time you brought this up, you didn't answer, you just did your usual run and hide for a few days and let everything pass over.
Please give me the list of words that I can't use!
What gives you the fucking right to tell me what I can and can't say?

Edited by - thefoxboy on 03/12/2009 10:04:35
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Gentleman Ghost 
"Brevity: soul of wit."

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  08:54:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
And some of the worst ones are against disabled people


For example, the lame?
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