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benj clews 
"...."
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 Posted - 03/20/2006 : 11:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Not offensive to me. Having said that, I've never bummed a fag. Or bummed a fag. 
But, isn't it generic though? Couldn't it apply to any movie where homosexuals dance? And, I haven't seen Brokeback, but does someone dance with some gays?
I briefly considered that, but the word arrangement and capitalisation aludes to 'Dances With Wolves'. |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/20/2006 : 12:18:15
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quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Not offensive to me. Having said that, I've never bummed a fag. Or bummed a fag.
But, isn't it generic though? Couldn't it apply to any movie where homosexuals dance? And, I haven't seen Brokeback, but does someone dance with some gays?
I briefly considered that, but the word arrangement and capitalisation aludes to 'Dances With Wolves'.
Yep I got the movie connection.  Although I couldn't see what a soldier in a Civil War-era movie set in Dakota had to do with cowpokes in Wyoming in the 1960's. Any cast/crew in common? Having said that, there are plenty of reviews on the site more tenuous than that one. But none on my page of course...   |
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benj clews
"...."
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Posted - 03/20/2006 : 12:22:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
I briefly considered that, but the word arrangement and capitalisation aludes to 'Dances With Wolves'.
Yep I got the movie connection. Although I couldn't see what a soldier in a Civil War-era movie set in Dakota had to do with cowpokes in Wyoming in the 1960's. Any cast/crew in common? Having said that, there are plenty of reviews on the site more tenuous than that one. But none on my page of course...
Sorry- no idea why I thought you wouldn't get the name reference
Hmmm... yeah, I guess the only link is that they're both in the West. |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 03/21/2006 : 03:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
I briefly considered that, but the word arrangement and capitalisation aludes to 'Dances With Wolves'.
Yep I got the movie connection. Although I couldn't see what a soldier in a Civil War-era movie set in Dakota had to do with cowpokes in Wyoming in the 1960's. Any cast/crew in common? Having said that, there are plenty of reviews on the site more tenuous than that one. But none on my page of course...
Sorry- no idea why I thought you wouldn't get the name reference
Hmmm... yeah, I guess the only link is that they're both in the West.
They aren't even set in the same century!
As for the word "fag," in the United States, it is a highly offensive term equitable to "nigger." I understand that in other English speaking countries, a fag refers to a cigarette, but even if that were the reviewer's intent (as I'm sure you all can agree that it was not), it only makes the review even less accurate a description of Brokeback Mountain. |
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ChocolateLady 
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 03/21/2006 : 09:39:32
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The truth is that the word means nothing, in and of itself. It is more who is saying it than what is being said that causes the reactions positive or negative.
This is a humourous site. We're not making any huge moral judgements about the movie, people's actions, lifesyles or anything else. We're just trying to review a movie in four words or less. The word "fag" is just one way of referring to the people being portrayed on the screen - and in this case, since both characters smoke as well, there's a double meaning there for both sides of the pond.
I don't think there's anything homophobic or offensive about referring to characters as "fags". |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 03/21/2006 : 11:53:59
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I think where a review is potential offensive it should have a little wit to justify its inclusion, "to sugar the pill" as it were. This review, IMHO, doesn't.
As the little Penguin says , the connection is ultra-tenuous too. I'm surprised it was passed in the first place.
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silly
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 03/21/2006 : 16:33:37
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Would "Dances with queers" be acceptable? (or has it already been done?)
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 19:27:15
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
I imagine that if I were gay, I would laugh at the Brokeback Mountain jokes in the same way I laugh at the "Worst Jewish Football Team" jokes.
They're no really the same type of film, though, are they? Would you laugh at any antisemitic terms used for 'humour' in reviews for a Jewish love story? |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 19:32:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Please Kill Me Now
I mean, at this rate we might soon be getting stuff like "Ledger gives Gyllenhaal AIDS".
The assistant editors approved "Farm AIDS" (or similar) for another film.
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It wouldn't be acceptable to publish inflammatory racist crap like, I dunno, for example 'Monster's Ball': 'Thornton sucks nigger's cunt'.
I agree. I have mentioned this example before: the dog in The Dambusters is called 'N****r' and gets run over, but "N****r gets run down" would not be approved and nor would anyone find it funny. |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 19:52:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
But when I was about 20 or so I worked out why it was OK to tell any joke I felt like, any time I felt like it. It's simply a matter of civil liberties.
It can only be argued that it is your civil right to do this if it is similarly one's civil right to be homophobic, racist etc. whenever one likes. I don't think this is so. Civil liberties do not mean that one can just do whatever one likes, because some things impinge negatively on other people. Serious verbal or behavioural racism (for example) does this (by limiting people's opportunities directly or indirectly), but racism in 'humour' does the same (however much the joke-teller reckons they themselves are not racist) because it to a degree endorses racist views to anyone who hears it.
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BUT, and it's a big BUT, I also know that there are many people who won't find my sick jokes funny, and/or even worse, will make an incorrect judment about me based on a joke I tell.
Would it be an incorrect judgment, though? What if, to them, racist jokes are racist, so from their perspective you would be racist? You are not in charge of what racism is, so from the best point of view for your position, it is a subjective thing.
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I totally separate humour from seriousness.
You have said this many times. However, you have never said why this a valid thing to do. Someone might as well say "I only say racist things in writing, not speech, so it doesn't count." It would just be arbitrary and wouldn't logically follow.
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In fact, it's usually funny because it totally contradicts my beliefs.
I acknowledge that when someone knows someone well, it is possible for them to be ironically racist, homophobic etc., but that doesn't extend safely to public arenas.
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BUT, I know that there are people who don't see things my way, and don't realise that I totally separate humour from reality, and will judge and condemn me (incorrectly) because of the jokes I tell
Like I've said, I'm not so sure that this can be defined as 'incorrect', since they simply may not agree that there is a magical distinction between humour and everything else in the world.
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So, the laughs it would give some were cancelled out with interest by the bad times it would give others
I think the same could be said for many of the reviews in question. |
Edited by - Salopian on 04/15/2006 19:54:50 |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 20:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
Incidentally, I can be offended by anti-gay remarks even if a gay person isn't. That gay person is not a spokesman for all gay people and neither does the fact that I am straight make me indifferent to gays being offended. The same is true for any other minority groups.
I quite agree - this is why "My gay friend wouldn't object to it" arguments are redundant. |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 20:04:07
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Originally posted by duh can't read (these)
Most of the examples you gave are merely descriptive of some homosexuals' intimate lovemaking practices. They don't classify whether the performers of the acts are considered by the reviewer to be good, bad, or indifferent.
Oh come on - we are not talking about neutral vocabulary being used here. |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 20:08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
Brokeback Mountain is one of the first films I've noticed people outside of this site describing in four words: 'the gay cowboy movie'. I'd guess that many fwfrs were submitted with this quote in mind, by reviewers who may not have seen the film or read the story on which it was based.
This is in fact what I most dislike about such reviews - the fact that they are hijacking a serious mainstream film. Theoretically, it is no different to submitting similar reviews for films that everyone only knows the title of, but it does seem to me to be more tasteless and insensitive here. |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 20:14:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
I suppose the way I look at it, if I come up with a controversial review that I think might be funny for 10 people and unpleasant for 10 people here, I won't submit it, but if I think it's funny for 50 and unpleasant for one, then I will submit, and it's tough for the one who doesn't like it.
But don't you see that that is exactly the main context in which racism etc. has been propogated throughout history - by the majority subjugating minorities. If keeping the majority happy at any expense were the criterion, then the Holocaust would have been fine. One should where possible not be detrimental to anybody, not just less than half of people. |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/15/2006 : 20:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by turrell
I think the fictional nature of this story makes it an easier target than say Schindler's List or Amistad, etc. Interesting if you look at reviews for the Laramie Project, the reviews are very respectful - perhaps because it is a true story.
It's just because it's not well known. The gay documentaries are about true life and they have just the same kind of reviews as Brokeback Mountain. |
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Are some 'Brokeback Mountain' reviews homophobic?
