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duh 
"catpurrs"
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 Posted - 06/06/2006 : 17:58:43
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A simple appeal from Benj to hold myself to a higher standard is enough for me.  |
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Warzonkey 
"Seriously Lo-Res"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 18:32:14
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I'd just like to add a note here as a relative newbie. I discovered this site about 5 weeks ago. Although I loved it at first after viewing the Top Reviews and Top 100, I was very nearly put off by the density of mundane reviews I found when I started looking at all the others.
When I posted my first few reviews I found they were quickly lost amongst the 100's of others on this site and remained virtually voteless until I started asking questions in the Fourums and people presumably started looking at my reviews.
As it happens, I perservered and now have several reviews on the site, many of which have a few votes now. However, I feel that if I had not shown my face in FYCTH and FWPR most of my reviews would not have been seen (and thus not been voted on).
So, as a newcomer, it just seems to me that there are now far too many reviews on this site to be accepting reviews with no artistic credit whatsoever. I agree with the arguments above, that it can be very subjective as to what constitutes a meritless review, but surely you could adopt a policy of rejecting something as blatant as "Christian Bale plays Batman" for example (not an actual accepted review, I'm just making a point.)
Anyway, interesting thread... I'll keep posting and trying to avoid say-what-you-see reviews.
(I think the closest I've got so far would be "Imagintive waitress plays God." for Amelie, but I see this as more of an observation about the character's actions, as the 'playing God' analogy is not actually made explicitly in the movie.)
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Stalean 
"Back...OMG"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 18:34:49
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I have never understood why we can't rate reviews like we do films (1-5 stars) instead of votes. I think this gives a better idea of what is exemplary over mundane.
Also, I would like to add this comment. Benj maintains and improves this site without ever asking anything of the participants, monetarily or otherwise (except the MERPs, who volunteered). Most of the other participants have a specific agenda when using FWFR--their reviews.
I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask each non-MERP member to rate/vote on a percentage of the most recently approved reviews before they are permitted to submit any new ones themselves. There would have to be some sort of program written in to monitor this stipulation. I would say rate a percentage of low/un-voted reviews, but then this defeats the purpose of viewing recently approved reviews
This may basically eliminate the thread asking for votes, but not each reviewer's "For Your Consideration" on their reviews page. This would actually give you more votes/ratings than you could possibly get in just the fourum alone. |
Edited by - Stalean on 06/06/2006 19:20:37 |
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Cheese_Ed 
"The Provolone Ranger"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 18:39:40
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As probably the prime example of a user who writes multiple reviews per film, let me just say that it is possible to do so without sacrificing quality. Even in the two cases where I wrote 100 or more reviews for one film (and I warn you ahead of time, I have another batch brewing) I like to believe that I never allowed the need for a number override my personal standards for review quality. That's why I try to resist chasing accolades and rankings as much as possible, it tempts me to stray from why I feel I'm really here - to write things that are interesting for me to work on and anybody who takes the time to read them. After all this IS art, not a competition.
I don't like writing straight reviews, so I try to put a hook in everything I write, even if it is a stupid little pun or rhyme or bit of fun with spelling. I know not everyone can or may even want to write like that, but I agree that a flood of a certain kind of review hurts the site by boring the casual or new FWFR visitor and making the truly special reviews harder to find in the haystack.
I have reviewed and culled my own body of work many times in the last three years, and I'm probably in need of doing so again after a flurry of reviewing in the last few months.
Think I'll go do that now...
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randall 
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 18:49:17
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quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
Yeah, I agree that the MERPs already have a lot on their plate and we want to keep it as simple as possible for them. However, since MERPs can vote as they approve, there's a couple of possibilities I can think of...
1. Controversially... give MERP votes more weight (e.g. a MERP vote is worth, say, 2 votes)
2. Flag any review that gets a MERP vote and have the MERP recommendations chart or whatever generated from that
1. I like the "one person, one vote" nature of the site and think this would be detrimental.
2. That could work to feature good new reviews, but is a MERP's opinion actually sounder than the collective? "Today's Top Reviews" serves a similar function. |
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Warzonkey
"Seriously Lo-Res"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 18:53:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheese_Ed
I don't like writing straight reviews, so I try to put a hook in everything I write, even if it is a stupid little pun or rhyme or bit of fun with spelling.
Yeah, that's part of the point I was making. It's what makes writing the reviews fun and satisfying.
(Although as a newbie it's SO annoying when I think of a good review and find that foxboy already has it verbatim, or virtually so.)
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Arch Stanton
"I am a gardener."
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 18:57:47
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I've always had the impression that it was the job of the site administrators to accept or reject reviews, and as I have a tendency to brainstorm multi-reviews quickly for a single film in the hope that one will be good enough - I have aways been surprised that some reviews get accepted (hell - any reviews!!).
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Montgomery 
"F**k!"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 19:12:57
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I also like to review movies multiple times. Check out my thread for a new way of voting on reviews based on suggesting movies you have more than one review for.
I hope Benj is not referring to my reviews. But, I will keep an eye out to make sure I'm submitting only reviews that have a twist and aren't just scene descriptions.
That said, I think that reviews (if they're clever) that refer to a single scene in a movie are fun. For example: I have one that says, "Nelson invites shorts consumption" for The Breakfast Club. That's about just one line in the movie. But, I think it's funny. It wouldn't be funny if I wrote, "Nelson says eat shorts." I also enjoy the reviews that sum up a whole movie nice and neatly. They're great, too.
Some people don't want to review a movie more than once. That's fine. I like to. I don't think that if you review a movie more than once, it naturally follows that you will not be writing good reviews.
I also don't think that reviews without a vote after whatever time should be deleted. I have many reviews that, in my humble opinion, are worthy of a vote and yet have not received one. I'm sure others are the same. And, although I write in the Fourum and did come up with that game about highlighting films you have more than one review for to solicit votes, I don't usually participate too heavily in the "vote for my reviews" games. I've never entered the Once a Week game. So, just automatically deleting based on no votes, doesn't seem right to me.
Perhaps you can add another rejection note for the MERPS -- "Too straight." And they can start accepting/rejecting based on that. I think my reviews would hold up to that. (Or they certainly will from now on out, that's for sure.) And I'd be willing to have that be a filter for all reviews going forward from this point.
What do you guys think?
EM :)
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Edited by - Montgomery on 06/06/2006 19:14:03 |
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TitanPa
"Here four more"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 19:25:48
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I try not to write simple reviews. I try to make them clever.
Simple: Titanic Sinks
Clever: Iceberg Wins
Simple: Dustin Hoffman is woman
Clever: Heel, Dustin, Heel.
But the thing that worries me the most is that one certain review can be said so many fifferent ways. It seems reviews try to review the same thing in different words so not to seem the same. Then they pass it off as original. Ive seen mine so many diff ways. |
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Montgomery
"F**k!"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 19:30:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TitanPa
But the thing that worries me the most is that one certain review can be said so many fifferent ways. It seems reviews try to review the same thing in different words so not to seem the same. Then they pass it off as original. Ive seen mine so many diff ways.
This has happened to me, too. When I see that something is only slightly different between my review and another for the same movie I try to determine who was first. And if I was last in, I delete mine.
There have been other times, though, when I was first in and I have said I felt another's review was the same and was told that they were different enough. I just bow to Benj in those cases, since it's his site.  And I'm just a contributor, who gets to play for FREE! 
Some of these duplicate ideas have been trimmed with the Fourum post of duplicate reviews. But, not all, obviously.
EM :) |
Edited by - Montgomery on 06/06/2006 19:30:49 |
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Josh the cat
"ice wouldn't melt, you'd think ....."
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 20:38:22
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I frequently watch a film and submit 5 - 10 reviews for it some are similar to other reviews that I am submitting. I then leave them in the hands of the MERP's or Benj.
I joined a site that was about reviewing films, and that is on the whole what I have been doing. I don't want to join the collective by submitting loads of 'I see...' puns / reviews, although they have value and are sometimes funny they are not me (I am not against people doing the 'I see...' thing).
If this is going away from being a review based site and turning into a pun and comedy site then I am afraid I will have to retire. I like the fact that I have achieved being 14th in the world at something and as such I shall keep trying to improve my ranking.
I do bin some of my pendings but removing correct approved film reviews is to be honest not right in my opinion. I try to review the whole film usually but sometimes a scene is the target.
The Breakfast Club - Brians a nemaxizoomdweebie.
That is a review based on a line from the film but I don't know any other neomaxizoomdweebie quotes, and I will be annoyed / upset if that review were to disappear.
I understand that the final decision is not mine but Benj's, and if the bar is to be raised again the number of reviewers will fall as the starting level is already very high!
Read digest then tell me I'm wrong.
Josh the cat |
Edited by - Josh the cat on 06/06/2006 20:41:10 |
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Montgomery
"F**k!"
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 20:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh the cat
I frequently watch a film and submit 5 - 10 reviews for it some are similar to other reviews that I am submitting. I then leave them in the hands of the MERP's or Benj.
I joined a site that was about reviewing films, and that is on the whole what I have been doing. I don't want to join the collective by submitting loads of 'I see...' puns / reviews, although they have value and are sometimes funny they are not me (I am not against people doing the 'I see...' thing).
If this is going away from being a review based site and turning into a pun and comedy site then I am afraid I will have to retire. I like the fact that I have achieved being 14th in the world at something and as such I shall keep trying to improve my ranking.
I do bin some of my pendings but removing correct approved film reviews is to be honest not right in my opinion. I try to review the whole film usually but sometimes a scene is the target.
The Breakfast Club - Brians a nemaxizoomdweebie.
That is one line from the film but I don't know any other neomaxizoomdweebie quotes, and I will be annoyed / upset if that review were to disappear.
I understand that the final decision is not mine but Benj's, and if the bar is to be raised again the number of reviewers will fall as the starting level is already very high!
Read digest then tell me I'm wrong.
Josh the cat
I like that review and while I don't think those reviews should be the only kind of reviews on the site -- I think there all kinds of ways to skin this cat -- I do enjoy them. As long as the review is not so straight and boring. -- Like "Hanks with long hair" -- Benj's example from before. The neomaxizoomdweebie line is funny. And it's fun to be reminded of it. And I find it amusing as a review for a film. Can't tell you why. Just do. I watch some movies over and over and over again. Cut to a scene of Emily watching a movie for the kajillionth time. Her husband walks in. Sees what is happening and asks, "You're watching that again?" And then walks out disgusted.
So, reviews that focus on one funny part do tickle my funny.
EM :) |
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Josh the cat
"ice wouldn't melt, you'd think ....."
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 20:51:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Montgomery
quote:
Originally posted by Josh the cat
The Breakfast Club - Brians a nemaxizoomdweebie.
That is one line from the film but I don't know any other neomaxizoomdweebie quotes, and I will be annoyed / upset if that review were to disappear.
I like that review and while I don't think those reviews should be the only kind of reviews on the site -- I think there all kinds of ways to skin this cat -- I do enjoy them. As long as the review is not so straight and boring. -- Like "Hanks with long hair" -- Benj's example from before. The neomaxizoomdweebie line is funny. And it's fun to be reminded of it. And I find it amusing as a review for a film. Can't tell you why. Just do. I watch some movies over and over and over again. Cut to a scene of Emily watching a movie for the kajillionth time. Her husband walks in. Sees what is happening and asks, "You're watching that again?" And then walks out disgusted.
So, reviews that focus on one funny part do tickle my funny.
EM :)
Cheers EM  |
Edited by - Josh the cat on 06/06/2006 20:52:15 |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 21:45:40
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I've been busy all day yesterday and just found this thread.
I agree with Benj that there has been an overwhelming number of ho-hum reviews lately, but I don't see much sense in asking people to write better reviews since they are doing the best that they can.
And I certainly wouldn't want to change the system as it stands now. Some people thought of reward/punishment tactics for promoting "better" reviews. I think the vote system we have now is doing its job in that reguard and that it need not be modified. I only have two words of advice, and they are directed to the whole site and not to individual members or to Benj in hopes that he changes anything:
1. Write fewer reviews - right now I have only 12 reviews in my pending list and I am proud of all 12 of them. Yes, this won't get me to my next user status anytime soon, but my Average votes per review right now is 7.4 and less than 1% of my 811 reviews have 0 votes. I find that this is a better indicater of success than being an oracle or deity with tons of 0 vote reviews and an average of 2 per review.
2. When in doubt, use poetry.com's rhyming dictionary - sometimes when I want to complete an accolade or something, I use this resource for help not just for rhyming, but also for synonyms, words that sound the same, etc. |
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turrell
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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Posted - 06/06/2006 : 21:49:58
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Just to throw my hat into the ring - I believe Benj was just asking us all to consider for ourselves a quality standard instead of midlessly trying to get as many reviews passed as possible. One of the problems with this site as it gains more reviewers is that the Merps and Benj have to wade through all of these low value add reviews and it holds everyone up. That said I don't think that a straight review is necessarily bad - if it is accurate and specific to the film it should in my opinion be passed - whether or not it receives a ton of votes is another matter. But to Benj's point focussing on a minute detail in the film in a bland way really doesn't do a good job of either reviewing the film or entertaining site visitors and the fewer we get of those the more timely our reviews will pass (the same concept holds for frivolous lawsuits mucking up the legal system). I am guilty as anyone in the bad puns department - and I usually try to write and promote via the forums my reviews that I think can generate some votes. I am nowhere near as prolific as some of my colleagues but I really work to try to keep my voting average high and eliminate the reviews with zero votes (try to keep it below 5% after the dust settles). I have some stinkers in my pile but not many judging by votes - and if everyone played by the same rules I wouldn't personally mind losing a few of them - if everyone else did too. I truly can't find many zero voted reviews that would pain me to lose (except I choose not to slide down the rankings). So I will certainly try to maintain a clever quotient on my reviews going forward but I am open to controls - maybe just the merps being able to reject reviews that are too basic:
Hanks and a ball.
Hanks makes fire.
Hanks, leaves collect water.
Hanks delivers missing package.
But I will go right now to see if anyone has submitted:
Hanks practices home dentistry. |
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Quality reviewing
