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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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 Posted - 02/07/2007 : 13:51:18
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It's been interesting reading all the hoo-hah about spoilers, and heaven forfend I should come down on one side or the other. I watch films for very different reasons, but plot is never one of them. Most pro critics already know the plot before they enter the preview theatre; then they can concentrate on:
The Story; The Direction; The Acting; The Music; The Editing; The Photography; The Other Tech credits; Anything unusual or exciting or trivial or remarkable that they can use in their review.
SO HERE's THE DEAL
Just pick a film, any film that you haven't seen and know little or nothing about. It can be something from the current crop or an oldie, classic or legend of doom. Then read everything you can find about the plot. Then watch the film.
If you never do this, it will be a new experience for you. If it's any good you may want to see it again or you may find that without the burden of following the plot you're more aware of The Story and all the elements that went into telling it.
And if the film sucks, I wonder how you'll feel about it knowing you can tell why it didn't fulfil its premise and its promise.
Anyone game for this? 
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ChocolateLady 
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 02/07/2007 : 14:28:36
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Sure, but I do this all the time. For instance, an easy example is when you have a film that's been adapted from a novel that you've already read. Take Charlie and the Chocolate Factory which I've read easily a dozen times or so. I know that story inside out and upside down. So, I certainly knew perfectly well what would happen in the end of the movie (aside from the fact that I'd also seen Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, and remembered well). Moreover, I had also heard about the Oompa-Loompa/s being all one guy, so that was no surprise either.
Of course, I looked more at the technical stuff, how well paced it was, if the actors fit the parts (to my mind) and did a good job, if the script worked well, as well as the costumes, make-up, lighting, music and special effects.
So what did I think? Well, I was a bit disappointed in the interpretation of Willy Wonka, although Depp did a very good job with it - but it wasn't his best performance. I still think of Wonka as being older than Depp looked in the movie. I didn't mind too much the additional background bit with his father, but it could easily have been done without. I adored the sets and special effects. The parts of Charlie and Grandpa were perfectly cast, beyond a doubt, and I really enjoyed every scene that Charlie and his family were in. The music was okay. Overall, I wasn't wowed by the film, and I really wanted to be wowed.
Is that a good start?
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/07/2007 : 14:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Sure, but I do this all the time. For instance, an easy example is when you have a film that's been adapted from a novel that you've already read. Take Charlie and the Chocolate Factory which I've read easily a dozen times or so. I know that story inside out and upside down. So, I certainly knew perfectly well what would happen in the end of the movie (aside from the fact that I'd also seen Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, and remembered well). Moreover, I had also heard about the Oompa-Loompa/s being all one guy, so that was no surprise either.
Of course, I looked more at the technical stuff, how well paced it was, if the actors fit the parts (to my mind) and did a good job, if the script worked well, as well as the costumes, make-up, lighting, music and special effects.
So what did I think? Well, I was a bit disappointed in the interpretation of Willy Wonka, although Depp did a very good job with it - but it wasn't his best performance. I still think of Wonka as being older than Depp looked in the movie. I didn't mind too much the additional background bit with his father, but it could easily have been done without. I adored the sets and special effects. The parts of Charlie and Grandpa were perfectly cast, beyond a doubt, and I really enjoyed every scene that Charlie and his family were in. The music was okay. Overall, I wasn't wowed by the film, and I really wanted to be wowed.
Is that a good start?
That's lovely CL  , but this really is aimed at those people who normally don't want to know anything about a plot before they see a film. I was really interested in whether they'd still be so insistent on no plot spoilers if they went through the experience just one time. Maybe they still will be, but you know ...
PS re Depp: I'm not sure how much the decision of what he looked like was more his or the director's. Usually it's strictly the latter in conjunction with the make-up and hair dept. It seems as though the entire conception of his role was to emphasize the bizarre, perhaps even pathological, child-like control that Wonka wields. Some analysts of Dahl's tale speak of the character's control freakery to the point of anal retention with all those chocolate/shit analogies. There are valid pre-story motivations for this given Wonka's own wonky childhood ... and Dahl always chooses names very carefully. Nor is he particularly breaking new ground; entire PhD theses have been written about the dark side of Grimm's Fairy Tales. While I loved Gene Wilder's interpretation because it was very funny, it was far less disturbing than Depp's, which, if I'm reading it right, was the whole point.
Anyway ... do we have any virgin plot spoiler takers? 
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Paddy C 
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 02/07/2007 : 16:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
this really is aimed at those people who normally don't want to know anything about a plot before they see a film. I was really interested in whether they'd still be so insistent on no plot spoilers if they went through the experience just one time. Maybe they still will be, but you know ...
Anyway ... do we have any virgin plot spoiler takers?
I hate knowing too much about a movie before I watch it. I like to know the genre, but usually one of director, main actors, writer, or certain award nominations will do for me. Example: 'Letters From Iwo Jima'.. I know it's directed by Clint, is a war movie, and is set in Japan. That's all I want to know until I see the movie thanks.
Also, considering i'm updating this blog (or mlog) of mine with movie reviews fairly regularly anyway, I'll take the challenge.
The next one I was going to watch was 'Blood Diamond' so I'd happily try the experiment with that one (seeing as how my expectations aren't really that high for it anyway!  )
So, I choose to accept this mission o sensei.
What must i do!? |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/07/2007 : 16:30:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
this really is aimed at those people who normally don't want to know anything about a plot before they see a film. I was really interested in whether they'd still be so insistent on no plot spoilers if they went through the experience just one time. Maybe they still will be, but you know ...
Anyway ... do we have any virgin plot spoiler takers?
I hate knowing too much about a movie before I watch it. I like to know the genre, but usually one of director, main actors, writer, or certain award nominations will do for me. Example: 'Letters From Iwo Jima'.. I know it's directed by Clint, is a war movie, and is set in Japan. That's all I want to know until I see the movie thanks.
Also, considering i'm updating this blog (or mlog) of mine with movie reviews fairly regularly anyway, I'll take the challenge.
The next one I was going to watch was 'Blood Diamond' so I'd happily try the experiment with that one (seeing as how my expectations aren't really that high for it anyway! )
So, I choose to accept this mission o sensei.
What must i do!?
Well, grasshopper ... your mission, as stated above: find out about the film's plot. A good start is to read some published reviews: imdb lists more than 125 of 'em. Read the imdb plot summary for a start. It actually may be enough. But check out at least 2 or 3 of the reviews, especially the one that says: Screen It! [spoilers]. Once you've got a pretty good idea of the plot, see the film concentrating on how that plot feeds into the underlying story [what the film's about] and assess the way it's told by each of the contributors, in front of and behind the camera.
Report back to base, soldier!
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Paddy C
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 02/07/2007 : 17:37:03
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
[quote]Well, grasshopper ... your mission, as stated above: find out about the film's plot. A good start is to read some published reviews: imdb lists more than 125 of 'em. Read the imdb plot summary for a start. It actually may be enough. But check out at least 2 or 3 of the reviews, especially the one that says: Screen It! [spoilers]. Once you've got a pretty good idea of the plot, see the film concentrating on how that plot feeds into the underlying story [what the film's about] and assess the way it's told by each of the contributors, in front of and behind the camera.
Report back to base, soldier!
Ten four sarge. I may be distracted by the dubious pleasures offered by the Ireland v San Marino game this evening, but will recon in the next 48 hours...
right, (rolls up sleeves) off to the imdb forums i go.. |
Edited by - Paddy C on 02/07/2007 17:38:15 |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 09:43:35
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Just pick a film, any film that you haven't seen and know little or nothing about. It can be something from the current crop or an oldie, classic or legend of doom. Then read everything you can find about the plot. Then watch the film.
O.K., I'll do this, but not sure when. Normally, I now very much avoid reviews in advance, since too many reviewers give too much away (especially Philip French in the Observer - he is terrible for it). However, I have already done it in a sense, with films about true events, such as United 93. Sure, there were real/fictionalised details that I did not know in advance, but none big enough to affect my take on the film. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 11:56:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
O.K., I'll do this, but not sure when. Normally, I now very much avoid reviews in advance, since too many reviewers give too much away (especially Philip French in the Observer - he is terrible for it). However, I have already done it in a sense, with films about true events, such as United 93. Sure, there were real/fictionalised details that I did not know in advance, but none big enough to affect my take on the film.
Okay, Sal ... come back and report whenever. Actually, Citizen Kane would be good one!
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Paddy C
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 17:17:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
[quote]Well, grasshopper ... your mission, as stated above: find out about the film's plot. A good start is to read some published reviews: imdb lists more than 125 of 'em. Read the imdb plot summary for a start. It actually may be enough. But check out at least 2 or 3 of the reviews, especially the one that says: Screen It! [spoilers]. Once you've got a pretty good idea of the plot, see the film concentrating on how that plot feeds into the underlying story [what the film's about] and assess the way it's told by each of the contributors, in front of and behind the camera.
Report back to base, soldier!
Ten four sarge. I may be distracted by the dubious pleasures offered by the Ireland v San Marino game this evening, but will recon in the next 48 hours...
right, (rolls up sleeves) off to the imdb forums i go..
Just an initial report: I've trawled the imdb forums, and on the foot of Sal's post, decided to read Philip French's very comprehensive Blood Diamond review in the Guardian. I feel like I already know the main characters and what to expect from the story, but will be watching it tonight anyway! 
Will recon once the review is written... over. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 18:28:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
Just an initial report: I've trawled the imdb forums, and on the foot of Sal's post, decided to read Philip French's very comprehensive Blood Diamond review in the Guardian. I feel like I already know the main characters and what to expect from the story, but will be watching it tonight anyway!
Will recon once the review is written... over.
I'm jealous ... tonight I've got a screening of Hannibal Rising. Ooo-er missus! 
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 19:29:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
The next one I was going to watch was 'Blood Diamond' ,,,
What must i do!?
All you had to do was read my four word review in a FYC a week or two ago. |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 19:35:03
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BB I have a tendency to try know a fair bit about a film before I see it but movies with a twist are really unforgiving with too much research - The Sixth Sense, The Crying Game, The Usual Suspects...
With these I like to watch them fresh initially then re-watch looking for the cleverly hidden pointers and subtle direction. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 20:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
BB I have a tendency to try know a fair bit about a film before I see it but movies with a twist are really unforgiving with too much research - The Sixth Sense, The Crying Game, The Usual Suspects...
With these I like to watch them fresh initially then re-watch looking for the cleverly hidden pointers and subtle direction.
Hi Conehead!
Well, as I mentioned - we all see films for different reasons. I was just trying to suggest a different way for a change. It's great if you've got a chance to see a film more than once, but pro critics don't always have the time for re-viewings. Honestly, I think it's a matter of training your brain. Take The Crying Game: I did know all about it beforehand for all kinds of reasons including talking to Neil and some of the actors. But that didn't spoil the film for me. I dunno ... it's kind of like hearing a great symphony or I guess even a great song. Even if you know it when it gets to THAT phrase or THAT chord or THAT bridge and you still get the shimmy-shakes
As we used to say in Noo Yawk: Ars Longa Vita Herring!
Hannibal beckons. Later, dude.
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Paddy C
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 23:07:07
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
Just an initial report: I've trawled the imdb forums, and on the foot of Sal's post, decided to read Philip French's very comprehensive Blood Diamond review in the Guardian. I feel like I already know the main characters and what to expect from the story, but will be watching it tonight anyway!
Will recon once the review is written... over.
I'm jealous ... tonight I've got a screening of Hannibal Rising. Ooo-er missus!
Ahem... more tea vicar?!
Right, well, that was definitely a strange experiment... After reading the Guardian review, I really thought there would be no surprises in 'Blood Diamond', but I couldn't have been more wrong.. i really enjoyed it...
I'd be interested to hear if this review seems different to the previous ones ye might have read from de blog...
Here it is, looking nervous |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 02/08/2007 : 23:55:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy C
Just an initial report: I've trawled the imdb forums, and on the foot of Sal's post, decided to read Philip French's very comprehensive Blood Diamond review in the Guardian. I feel like I already know the main characters and what to expect from the story, but will be watching it tonight anyway!
Will recon once the review is written... over.
I'm jealous ... tonight I've got a screening of Hannibal Rising. Ooo-er missus!
Ahem... more tea vicar?!
Right, well, that was definitely a strange experiment... After reading the Guardian review, I really thought there would be no surprises in 'Blood Diamond', but I couldn't have been more wrong.. i really enjoyed it...
I'd be interested to hear if this review seems different to the previous ones ye might have read from de blog...
Here it is, looking nervous
Well, ain'tcha PaddyC the fast learner or what?!!! I'm very proud of you! Re: yer mlog: Once you get into the review itself it seems more focused than some of your others ... did you find that, too? And somehow I thought there was a deeper understanding of what the film was trying to do in its own terms, as opposed to confining yourself to how you felt about it. Not that you shouldn't include the latter, but now we have more objective reasons for the subjectivity. If that makes sense.
As to the lengthy plot-intro, it's a good exercise but you can get too bogged down in minutiae. I know the feeling: you don't want to leave anything out.  The art is to try combining so that plot points are threaded through the analysis, without giving too much away or sounding like a pr puff from the film's publicist.
I'm not claiming my own take is GB Shaw or anything, but if you wanna take a gander here it is.
Well done, PaddyC! 
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Paddy C
"Does not compute! Lame!"
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Posted - 02/09/2007 : 00:24:27
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Well, ain'tcha PaddyC the fast learner or what?!!! I'm very proud of you! Re: yer mlog: Once you get into the review itself it seems more focused than some of your others ... did you find that, too? And somehow I thought there was a deeper understanding of what the film was trying to do in its own terms, as opposed to confining yourself to how you felt about it. Not that you shouldn't include the latter, but now we have more objective reasons for the subjectivity. If that makes sense.
As to the lengthy plot-intro, it's a good exercise but you can get too bogged down in minutiae. I know the feeling: you don't want to leave anything out. The art is to try combining so that plot points are threaded through the analysis, without giving too much away or sounding like a pr puff from the film's publicist.
I'm not claiming my own take is GB Shaw or anything, but if you wanna take a gander here it is.
Well done, PaddyC!
Well, thanks for the kind words! I did feel like i understood the film a little better when I wasn't so worried about getting familar with the characters. Also, it was interesting, knowing a fair bit about the plot means that you could see what the makers are really trying to say.. or at least if they're trying to say anything at all!
Point taken about the excessive plot description (less plot, more interpretation, check!) I think I turned my normal 'no spoiler' policy on its head this evening altogether!
Overall it was an enjoyable exercise, and a totally different way to watch a movie, although it may have helped that I enjoyed the film as well.. Think i might try it again with the next one on the list, 'Flags of Our Fathers', and see how that one turns out.
Thanks again sensei! |
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Who'll Take the Critic's Challenge?
