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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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 Posted - 09/24/2007 : 22:06:00
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For anyone interested in my tie-in piece for this film, my Morning Star piece uses it to explore the way homosexuality has been portrayed in mainstream cinema.
I AM SO EMBARRASSED -- not to mention SO FURIOUS!!! I've just read through my article and some expletive deleted moron of a sub-editor has needlessly changed a word in the review that not only makes the sentence meaningless, but totally inaccurate. I've just fired off a grumpy eMail to the Arts Editor, but the damage is done. Maybe they'll be able to change the online version. I bloody hope so!
The offending paragraph is near the end and lists some films which have been brave in presenting instances of male homosexuality which help us understand their enforced repression. I quoted Dirk Bogarde's powerful performance in Victim. My original sentence read that he repressed "his true sexuality within a 'normal' marriage" -- I cannot understand why, but someone changed the word 'normal' [which I'd put in quotes to indicate the social prejudices] to same-sex. WHY? The sentence is completely altered and is now totally wrong.
And I'm -
I sure hope no one tampers with your work like that! |
Edited by - BaftaBaby on 09/25/2007 08:13:19 |
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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 09:03:40
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Did you see the Australian film 'Strange Bedfellows' which has basically the same premise (in this case they pretend to be gay for tax relief purposes)? [Note: Michael Caton, who was in a film with Sandler, says that he did mention the plot to him when it was still being developed.]
The film plays with stereotypes - but not in as crass a way as the Sandler movie. I also think it is saved by the fact the two lead characters are older men, living in country Australia, who can be forgiven for initially portraying a stereotype until they find out more about a lifestyle and partial 'sub-culture' they haven't been in contact with before. Also SPOILER one of the character's daughter's turns out to be gay, so you get the pay off of a real relationship. |
Edited by - Shiv on 09/25/2007 09:06:55 |
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:08:45
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I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry
What stupid editing! He or she cannot have been paying the slightest attention! 
Other than that, nice piece. I think you're quite right about the portrayal of gay people in film, where they are even more adapted for straight people (cliches and/or neutered) than on television.
You're also right that the film, despite its genre, does manage to do quite a good job at being anti-homophobic. Although it labours the point (especially in the final courtroom scene - why are those scenes always in courtrooms?), its presentation of preteneding to be gay as no big deal does represent the next stage in the reduction of homophobia.
It also covers an interesting point - that of why people not in romantic relationships should be denied the right to leave their financial holdings to another. This has come up here since the advent of civil partnerships, in particular with regard to the case of two elderly sisters, the survivor of which would have to leave their house (because of inheritance tax) if the other died. (In practice, I expect that the inheritance tax could be postponed till the second's death, but it's a point of principle.) (This is leaving aside the fact that I would be astonished if any government employee pension would not automatically transfer to someone's minor children when their spouse died - they should have tried to come up with something a bit more realistic.)
Because of this, I don't think it's a problem if the film covers the same ground as the Australian one - neither of them thought of the concept. |
Edited by - Demisemicenturian on 09/25/2007 10:10:24 |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:29:35
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
For anyone interested in my tie-in piece for this film, my Morning Star piece uses it to explore the way homosexuality has been portrayed in mainstream cinema.
I AM SO EMBARRASSED -- not to mention SO FURIOUS!!! I've just read through my article and some expletive deleted moron of a sub-editor has needlessly changed a word in the review that not only makes the sentence meaningless, but totally inaccurate. I've just fired off a grumpy eMail to the Arts Editor, but the damage is done. Maybe they'll be able to change the online version. I bloody hope so!
The offending paragraph is near the end and lists some films which have been brave in presenting instances of male homosexuality which help us understand their enforced repression. I quoted Dirk Bogarde's powerful performance in Victim. My original sentence read that he repressed "his true sexuality within a 'normal' marriage" -- I cannot understand why, but someone changed the word 'normal' [which I'd put in quotes to indicate the social prejudices] to same-sex. WHY? The sentence is completely altered and is now totally wrong.
And I'm -
I sure hope no one tampers with your work like that!
[Spoiler for Advise & Consent]
Maybe it was a same-sex marriage - the same sex every time? 
Moving swiftly on, Victim wasn't even in our fwfr database, so I've added it.  The same year saw another memorable sympathetic portrayal of a homosexual in British cinema, Murray Melvin in A Taste Of Honey.
By contrast, in American cinema next year Advise & Consent portrayed homosexuality as a kind of hellpit some good men could fall into through weakness or loneliness. Unlike in Victim, the man faced with exposure of a long-previous gay affair chooses suicide as the honourable way out. 
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:32:28
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Thanks both Shiv and Sal & [belatedly] Whipper -
I'd read about Strange Bedfellows but haven't seen it. My original catalog of films mentioned quite a few other examples - e.g. Torchsong Trilogy, Birdcage -- but there's always a word limit. So I tried to pick films people might know. The fact that I handed in a piece well within the word count makes it all the more baffling why they'd change that word.
I'll keep you posted if I get a reply.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 09/25/2007 10:33:57 |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:52:31
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Not sure how relavent this is to the subject, but I think the problem is with the difference between portraying gay love (the emotion) vs portraying gay sex. While Brokeback Mountain certainly worked hard to give us the former, but there is still a problem with separating the two in order to gain general acceptance of gay relationships. Sure, straight guys have no problem with lesbians - hell, for many its even a turn on, but get two guys together on screen and ooopsy, romance flies out the window.
But you see, I find romance a turn-on, and I find nothing sexier on screen than seeing two people's eyes meet as they come together for their first kiss. Does it matter what sex either of the two are? As long as the on-screen chemistry is working, not for me, but I guess I'm the exception to the rule.
There's a line in the movie Breakfast on Pluto where Bertie (Stephen Rea) turns to "Kitty" and says that "Kitty" is the type of person he could fall in love with. When "Kitty" tells him that he's actually a man, Bertie replies that he knows this, but reminds him that he said that "Kitty" was the TYPE of person he could fall in love with, not THE person he could fall in love with. This line shows an underlying acceptance of the person - both the one Bertie is talking to as well as himself - that is what Hollywood in general is missing.
(If you haven't seen Breakfast on Pluto, you're missing a wonderful movie.)
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:58:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Birdcage
I thought of this film while watching Chuck and Larry last night. I've only seen bits of it, so may be being unfair, but I find it such an embarrassment.
Surprising indeed that Victim wasn't previously here. It's been on my Love Film list for a while (along with Breakfast on Pluto, following an earlier endorsement from C.L.).
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:58:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
the problem is with the difference between portraying gay love (the emotion) vs portraying gay sex.
Yep, this is the crux of it. |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 13:16:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Sure, straight guys have no problem with lesbians - hell, for many its even a turn on...
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:29:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Sure, straight guys have no problem with lesbians - hell, for many its even a turn on...
Yeah, I was going to devote a section of the article to this social anomaly, but there wasn't enough space. I hope to get another chance at some point though, because it's always been something that puzzles me and I've got theories ... oh yes I do!
Oh, PS just got an apologetic eMail from the M* saying they're going to change the online version back to my original. We'll see!!!
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 09/25/2007 14:30:10 |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Yeah, I was going to devote a section of the article to this social anomaly...
Which the film notably refers to. |
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MisterBadIdea
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:38:58
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quote:
Yeah, I was going to devote a section of the article to this social anomaly, but there wasn't enough space. I hope to get another chance at some point though, because it's always been something that puzzles me and I've got theories ... oh yes I do!
Once male homosexuality gets more and more mainstream, I think you'll find a fair number of girls who are turned on by that kind of thing. Lots of my female friends reported that exact thing about Brokeback Mountain, and I even had a fairly straight-laced Christian girlfriend who reported some surprising feelings after watching the guy-on-guy scene in Y Tu Mama Tambien. |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:42:48
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
Once male homosexuality gets more and more mainstream, I think you'll find a fair number of girls who are turned on by that kind of thing. Lots of my female friends reported that exact thing about Brokeback Mountain, and I even had a fairly straight-laced Christian girlfriend who reported some surprising feelings after watching the guy-on-guy scene in Y Tu Mama Tambien.
I'm not too convinced. I don't think people's turn-ons are determined by seeing something more often. I very much doubt that many girls would be turned on by seeing explicit gay male sex, in contrast to the endless lesbo videos there are for men. But there could be something in the sensuality or romance, as C.L. mentioned. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 16:41:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
Once male homosexuality gets more and more mainstream, I think you'll find a fair number of girls who are turned on by that kind of thing. Lots of my female friends reported that exact thing about Brokeback Mountain, and I even had a fairly straight-laced Christian girlfriend who reported some surprising feelings after watching the guy-on-guy scene in Y Tu Mama Tambien.
I'm not too convinced. I don't think people's turn-ons are determined by seeing something more often. I very much doubt that many girls would be turned on by seeing explicit gay male sex, in contrast to the endless lesbo videos there are for men. But there could be something in the sensuality or romance, as C.L. mentioned.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's got more to do with the kind of lesbian scenes that many men find erotic. Usually they feature women whom the guy wouldn't mind shagging. I don't know any man - gay or straight - who admit to being turned on to Rose Troche's Go Fish, for example. But, hey, that's a really complicated issue and there's no benefit in a one-size fits all approach [gosh, did I just make a pun, there] 
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turrell
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 17:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
There's a line in the movie Breakfast on Pluto where Bertie (Stephen Rea) turns to "Kitty" and says that "Kitty" is the type of person he could fall in love with. When "Kitty" tells him that he's actually a man...
You would've thought Rea would be a little more discerning after his Crying Game experience.
btw - here is that scene - very well written - perhaps I will look for this film ...
Bertie: You know, Kitten, I made a decision a long time ago.
Patrick "Kitten" Braden: What decision was that?
Bertie: That I wasn't destined for sentimental side of things. But if I ever did let myself fall for someone, I think it would be a girl like you.
Patrick "Kitten" Braden: Bertie, please, I have to stop you. There's something you should know.
Bertie: Or maybe what I should say is, it would be a girl not a million miles away from where I'm standing. What's the matter, Princess?
Patrick "Kitten" Braden: Well, you see, the thing is, Bertie, I'm not a girl.
Bertie: Oh, I knew that, Princess.
Patrick "Kitten" Braden: You did?
Bertie: Of course. What I said was, it would be a girl like you. |
Edited by - turrell on 09/25/2007 17:22:27 |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:32:22
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YAY! They fixed it. At least I'm now just a hard-copy dodo
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I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry
