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MisterBadIdea 
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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 Posted - 05/09/2008 : 21:15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
What I was getting at was that I expect that by 2028 or so, if Iron Man is written about in the history books at all, it will be as being among the successful surge in popularity of superheros during the 2000s around the time of (and perhaps as a response to) the War on Terror just as superheroes rose in popularity during World War II and the Cold War. Individually, each of these comic book films are unimportant to film history. In that sense, they are like each individual 1950s flying saucer B-movie or each individual 1980s "hard body" movies (such as Rambo). Rather, they belong to a greater picture of what American culture was like during the decade they were produced.
Nearly impossible to imagine justification for such a statement, seeing as the Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and now Iron Man franchises are one of the most simultaneously lucrative, popular and acclaimed movies in history. Did you not notice the $100 million opening weekend gross, or the 94 percent approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes? That's a perfect storm of success right there. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it, but you really don't have any basis to think that people are going to forget about it. |
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silly 
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 05/09/2008 : 22:15:09
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IM is off to a great start, but twenty years is a long time.
Top 10 movies twenty years ago: Coming to America, Crocodile Dundee II and Cocktail.
I'd rather forget them, myself, and couldn't care less what Rotten Tomatoes thinks of them.
(okay, I lied: Crocodile Dundee II has 14% at RT, tied with Cocktail, but way behind the 62% that Coming to America earned. Whatever happened to Arsenio Hall?) |
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GHcool 
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 05/09/2008 : 22:46:10
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
What I was getting at was that I expect that by 2028 or so, if Iron Man is written about in the history books at all, it will be as being among the successful surge in popularity of superheros during the 2000s around the time of (and perhaps as a response to) the War on Terror just as superheroes rose in popularity during World War II and the Cold War. Individually, each of these comic book films are unimportant to film history. In that sense, they are like each individual 1950s flying saucer B-movie or each individual 1980s "hard body" movies (such as Rambo). Rather, they belong to a greater picture of what American culture was like during the decade they were produced.
Nearly impossible to imagine justification for such a statement, seeing as the Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men and now Iron Man franchises are one of the most simultaneously lucrative, popular and acclaimed movies in history. Did you not notice the $100 million opening weekend gross, or the 94 percent approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes? That's a perfect storm of success right there. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it, but you really don't have any basis to think that people are going to forget about it.
Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, and Iron Man are among he most financially lucrative movies in history and, arguably, among the most popular (depending on your definition of popularity). They are not among the most acclaimed movies in history. No serious scholar, historian, or critic recognizes them as such. They might be this person or that person's favorite movies, but that doesn't mean that any of them have stood up to the test of time. |
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Demisemicenturian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 05/10/2008 : 04:37:06
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quote:
Originally posted by silly
Coming to America
I dunno, I think this still has appeal. It's also very interesting to see that black Americans' view of Africa was just as stereotyped as white Americans'. |
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silly
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 05/10/2008 : 12:30:43
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It has appeal, yes, but is it one of those movies that anyone would include in their "top movies of the 80's" list?
Using the prior example, I have three kids that wouldn't even pause if they came across it channel surfing. They might if I told them it was Donkey from Shrek in one of his rare, non-animated movies.
Other top movies from that year: Rain Man, Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
Interesting enough, the following year brought us Batman and Indy Jones Last Crusade. Both of these my kids would watch, but they'd still complain about the effects, most likely. |
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Ali
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 05/11/2008 : 09:54:32
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If you don't like Coming to America, you're wrong.
Some of you really have shit taste in movies.
(Mr Bad Idea and GH Cool are both equally wrong)
I am awesome.
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 05/11/2008 : 10:26:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
I am awesome.
More like aw, shucks!
 
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MisterBadIdea
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 00:51:16
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quote:
Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, and Iron Man are among he most financially lucrative movies in history and, arguably, among the most popular (depending on your definition of popularity). They are not among the most acclaimed movies in history. No serious scholar, historian, or critic recognizes them as such. They might be this person or that person's favorite movies, but that doesn't mean that any of them have stood up to the test of time.
Well, the oldest of them is seven years old, so we have a while to go before we see if they stand up to the test of time. In any case, I have to admit that I have no idea what exactly you mean when you talk about serious film historians and critics. I grant that there are certainly more acclaimed films than those superhero movies, but as far as blockbusters go, you don't see many with as much popular praise as they do without the name "Spielberg" attached. I'd also note that Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins made it onto a lot of year-end top ten lists, and that Sam Raimi, Christopher Nolan and Bryan Singer are highly respected auteurs (as are Richard Donner and Tim Burton before them), and that there's already some early Oscar buzz for Iron Man. Even the examples you listed (the '50s alien movies and the '80s action movies) have churned out some highly iconic B-movies (The Day the Earth Stood Still, Predator, the Rambo movies). I don't understand how you're coming up with your conclusions. |
Edited by - MisterBadIdea on 05/12/2008 00:52:15 |
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 01:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
Well, the oldest of them is seven years old
Was GHcool necessarily talking about Batman Begins? |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 01:38:22
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We liked, didn't love. Our favorite scenes were those out of metal-suitedness: the romcom aspect was pitch-perfect. Jeff Bridges stole his every scene until he donned the suit; then he was reduced to just a teensy part of the overall mayhem. Not quite what was billed by early reviews, but the rare superhero blockbuster with a semblance of a brain.
Oh, and just for our fwiffer pedants, and you well know who you are: the script does take care of the "Iron Man" inconsistency. Nope, it's not iron, and the movie knows it. |
Edited by - randall on 05/12/2008 01:40:36 |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 01:41:13
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Iron Man
Okay, the givens: it ain't Shakespeare, it's a comic book. And I don't mean Betty and Veronica! This mag always ends with big metal monster battling bigger metal monster. And, by now, we all know that Iron Man is just a catchier title than an accurate one, since his super-duper-suit that does everything including take out the trash, is actually made of a gold-titanium alloy. Yes, folks, Robert Downey Jr IS Gold-Titanium-Alloy Man!
This fwfr thread is already overburdened with the anal minutiae of plot irrelevanicies. Suffice to say there's action a plenty, some welcome wry delivery by the ever-talented Downey Jr, and a satisfying political twist to its 1963 origins as the wish-list to kill Communism dead.
And, let's not forget, the whole concept really scratches that itch to take personal transport to its limits. Personally I think that's the most important fantasy fulfilment of the film.
Now - as a film - it's a melange of potentially interesting ideas and settings, blessed with some great design, but awkwardly juxtaposed with paint-by-numbers scenes between pals, villains, pals vs villains, and, sigh, a hint at romance. The pace belongs to someone with as arhythmic a heartbeat as Tony Stark - occasionally breathtaking, then boring even as it's blowing stuff up. I'm more comfortable thinking of Jon Favreau as the director of Elf.
Bringing such a 2D world to life Favreau is fortunate not only in nabbing Downey Jr for the lead, but surrounding him with solid talent like Paltrow, Bridges, and Terrence Howard, who's carving out a niche in intelligent, world-weary nice guys.
Go. Enjoy. Just don't go expecting: To be Iron Man or not to be Iron Man. 'cause that ain't the question, dude!
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Demisemicenturian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 01:48:21
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
nabbing Downey Jr for the lead
Or him nabbing the lead, more like it! I think he just harangued them until they gave in.
On the metal, yup, the title is fine - just not F.W.F.R.s saying that there is iron involved. Those are archetypal cases of 'Title play only' (well, archetypal in the sense that they are title play only, not archetypal in the sense that they are typical examples of reviews which get that rejection). |
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silly
"That rabbit's DYNAMITE."
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 02:13:01
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We were watching "Shaggy Dog" on Disney (the Tim Allen one) and the bad guy showed up and both my boys shouted, "It's Iron Man!"
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 05:35:17
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
quote:
Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, and Iron Man are among he most financially lucrative movies in history and, arguably, among the most popular (depending on your definition of popularity). They are not among the most acclaimed movies in history. No serious scholar, historian, or critic recognizes them as such. They might be this person or that person's favorite movies, but that doesn't mean that any of them have stood up to the test of time.
In any case, I have to admit that I have no idea what exactly you mean when you talk about serious film historians and critics.
There are plenty out there. My personal favorite is Robert Sklar. I own two of his books: Movie-Made America, about the history of American cinema and its effect on American culture, and Film: An International History of the Medium, a coffee table book with amazing photos and sketches that I'm not ashamed to call a masterpiece. Among the 1988 films mentioned in both books are:
Rain Man - Sklar notes that Rain Man was the only Best Picture winner that was also among the top 20 money-earners of the 1980s.
Big - Sklar notes that the 1980s were a time in which female directors, such as Penny Marshall, were given an entry point to make commercially successful films for the teen and preteen market.
Twins - Sklar devotes a page of Movie-Made America to the career of Arnold Schwarzenegger. He notes that Arnold's films only had limited appeal in the U.S. until Twins.
As you can see, historians note the general trend of the culture. If it is written about at all, Iron Man will be discussed as being part of the comic book trend of the 2000s. There is nothing special about it or about any of the above three films on their own. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 05/12/2008 : 07:25:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
nabbing Downey Jr for the lead
Or him nabbing the lead, more like it! I think he just harangued them until they gave in.
In his interview with Jay Leno he said he had to do a screen test, and that he does really fantastic screen tests*.
From the clip they showed, this looks like fun!
(*And then he gave us one of those pretending to be humble but I'm really amazing looks!) |
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Iron Man
